Average

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Wm.Ince
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Re: Average

Postby Wm.Ince » Thu May 03, 2018 10:10 am

sportflugzeug wrote:I am confused about the power on power off stalls.
The power off is lading Stall. So I configure the plane; fuel pump on, 30 -50 flaps, carb heat on, mags on both, lift nose up until buffet, I DO NOT KNOW RPM, alleviate stick pressure, use rudders if necessary, stay OFF ailerons, nose goes down, full throttle, 50-30 flaps then 30-15 flaps the. 0 flaps. Flying forward full throttle increased airspeed out of Stall.
The power off stall is departing stall. 15 flaps, fuel pump on, mags on both, carb heat in (OFF), wait until in white arc, I DO NOT KNOW THE RPM, lift nose wait until buffet, stall, and then after that I’m lost...
Can anyone help me? Thanks.

Is there a typo in your post?
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

Warmi
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Re: Average

Postby Warmi » Thu May 03, 2018 10:24 am

sportflugzeug wrote:I am confused about the power on power off stalls.

The power off is landing Stall. So I configure the plane; fuel pump on, 30 -50 flaps, carb heat on, mags on both, lift nose up until buffet, I DO NOT KNOW RPM, alleviate stick pressure, use rudders if necessary, stay OFF ailerons, nose goes down, full throttle, 50-30 flaps then 30-15 flaps the. 0 flaps. Flying forward full throttle increased airspeed out of Stall.

The power off stall is departing stall. 15 flaps, fuel pump on, mags on both, carb heat in (OFF), wait until in white arc, I DO NOT KNOW THE RPM, lift nose wait until buffet, stall, and then after that I’m lost...

The above information is what I think I know. I could have many things wrong.

Can anyone help me? Thanks.


The way I remembered this stuff was simply to note that the power on stall , the departing stall, is there to simulate stalls on departure - so set up your plane the way you would be set up as you were taking off. Exact details are plane specific but ultimately , these stalls are there to simulate conditions when you are taking off and when you are landing so set up the plane appropriately for these conditions and you will have the correct setup.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Thu May 03, 2018 10:35 am

Thank you. I guess the confusing part for power off is when I come in for landing, I add 15 flaps past ABeam, 30 flaps on Base, 50 flaps on Final. That takes a while. But for a power off stall maneuver, it’s done right now. So do I just go from 0 to 50 or are there a series of steps.

This goes the same for Power On. When I depart, I take off, have 15 degree flaps, get out of ground effect at 60-65 knots, raise nose, and climb. When I am clear of obstacles, lower flaps to 0.

I am sorry to ask such rudimentary questions, but there has been so much to learn in the past 4 flights.

Warmi
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Re: Average

Postby Warmi » Thu May 03, 2018 10:42 am

Well, if you are simulating power off stall then take your time to set the plane up in the landing configuration.
Slow down to your Vfe speed , extend first notch of flaps, then slow down some more , go for the second notch and so on... until you are setup up as if you were on final and then pull the nose up and stall the plane.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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drseti
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Re: Average

Postby drseti » Thu May 03, 2018 10:50 am

You may wish to view my EAA Webinar "What's the Spin on Stalls?" Available online at:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/4492106941001
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Thu May 03, 2018 10:59 am

Thank you Warmi. Though it’s a maneuver, it is still done in a precise way for “setting up” for that maneuver. I guess I was over thinking it.

I taught myself German in 2 1/2 years, learning over 15,000 words and composition. I tapped into a part of my brain that had never been worked. As I go through this journey of aviation, I feel as though I am working parts of my cortex that have never been worked. Good stuff!

Thank you drseti,
I will watch the video after work and take notes. I need all the help I can get. My CFI is a fabulous instructor, but when I get home I get jumbled because I am on information overload.

Warmi
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Re: Average

Postby Warmi » Thu May 03, 2018 11:23 am

Yeah, I was on information overload as well about a year ago when I was pretty much where you are right now.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4663&p=45128#p45128
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Thu May 03, 2018 6:36 pm

warmi
I read your entire thread from when you had 2 hours in December 2016 to your solo in February 2017. Amazing job!

drseti
I just watched the entire video on stalls. Thanks you so much! Great video. It was extremely helpful.

sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Sat May 05, 2018 9:19 pm

I found out today if you don’t fly in 5 days, you can get a little rusty. I spent 1/2 hour warming up (relearning) on patterns and 1/2 hours actually doing them well.

Lesson learned.

Warmi
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Re: Average

Postby Warmi » Sat May 05, 2018 9:31 pm

sportflugzeug wrote:I found out today if you don’t fly in 5 days, you can get a little rusty. I spent 1/2 hour warming up (relearning) on patterns and 1/2 hours actually doing them well.

Lesson learned.


What time you were up there at ? Was it bumpy ?

I went out with my wife around noon for a flight down to Champaign IL and oh ... was that a major mistake...
Ended up having miserable 40 minutes of constant bumps and thermals ...sometime soaring at almost 1000 FPM - my wife was a bit freaked out -she said no more flights like that :D. ... only mornings or evenings...heh
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Sat May 05, 2018 9:43 pm

I flew .7 hours at 1830 in Morris. Wind at 290 6 knots so I had to crab on crosswind and downwind; has to break base early for final because of tailwind. Crab all the way for touchdown; RIGHT rudder immediately before wheels touched.

I now have been 5 hours total flying time. What is the correct term...Hobbs?

sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Sat May 05, 2018 9:45 pm

Very discouraging to have it down pat on Monday; but flew today and it was like I had to start from the beginning. :|

RTK
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Re: Average

Postby RTK » Sun May 06, 2018 11:19 am

sportflugzeug wrote:Thank you. I guess the confusing part for power off is when I come in for landing, I add 15 flaps past ABeam, 30 flaps on Base, 50 flaps on Final. That takes a while. But for a power off stall maneuver, it’s done right now. So do I just go from 0 to 50 or are there a series of steps.


Interesting to hear of the 15 degrees of flap abeam the numbers. I was taught to have 15 degrees of flap downwind and STABILIZE the aircraft at 65 knots and maintain altitude, then turn base and add flaps as needed (usually 30 degrees), and all flaps on final (provided it’s not windy. If it is windy, then a no-flap landing.)

The reason I capitalized “stabilized” is that my CFI drilled that into my head. Winds and gusts will move you around, but you should have command of the aircraft and be able to maintain speed and approach. If you turn too short a final and make too many changes at one time (or in short succession, such as adding flaps quickly) it will increase your workload and you’ll be busy trying to maintain speed, glide angle and alignment with the runway.

I might suggest trying to extend your downwind a little so that you have more time on final to maintain speed and add flaps. Better to be a little high and slip it in than to be low and drag the airplane in under power. Oh, and a “go around” is always an option.

Don’t be discouraged... hang in there as it is all experiential. You’ll encounter more updraft and winds in the afternoon than morning, but good to experience it all as these will help build your confidence in flight.

TimTaylor
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Re: Average

Postby TimTaylor » Sun May 06, 2018 11:24 am

Go by what your instructor is telling you, not what you're hearing second hand here. There is more than one way to skin the cat. Also, with only a few hours of flight training, each flight can feel almost like your first flight. This will get better and easier as you gain more experience.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

sportflugzeug
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Re: Average

Postby sportflugzeug » Sun May 06, 2018 12:58 pm

This is the information I have accumulated in 5 hours of flight time. This is from my personal experience; the little that I have obtained so far.

TAKE OFF
Flaps 15 degree
Full power
Right rudder
MORE RIGHT RUDDER!!!!
NOT ENOUGH RIGHT RUDDER!!!!!!!!
Once plane airborne, keep in ground effect until
speed achieved;

DEPARTURE
Go out 1/2 mile
Stay 300 ft below TPA (1500); so climb up to 1200 msl
“Positive rate of climb”
“Clear of obstacles”
“Flaps at 0”

CROSSWIND
5000 RPM 1500 msl
As soon as turn into downwind, lower to 4000RPM

DOWNWIND
Check fuel pump on
Mags on both
Chock off
Carb heat on

ABEAM
Lower to 3000 RPM (FIRST)
15 degree flaps (SECOND)
Lower to to begin descent

BASE
Verify again fuel pump on, lights on, mags on both, choke in, carb heat out (on).
30 degree flaps
Lower nose and bank.
Keep nose low so there is no power off stall
Base can be most dangerous for Traffic Pattern

FINAL
Flaps 50 degrees
Watching RPM around 2400 to 2900. Adjust if necessary.
Keep nose down
Glide in.
Crab if necessary

LANDING
Idle power
Discontinue crab
Use appropriate rudder when in ground effect
Keep nose up
KEEP NOSE UP!!!!

Full throttle
Right rudder
Carb heat in (off)
15 degree flaps
Stay in ground effect until speed acquired; lower nose
And let’s do it again.


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