Tower Endorsement

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3Dreaming
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:30 pm

drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:I almost hate to say this for fear of jinxing my next applicant, but I have never had an applicant fail a checkride.


This speaks volumes, Tom, about the quality of instruction you provide. I'm afraid I can't say the same thing (but then, I believe I have been instructing longer than you - it's just a matter of time.)


I received my private pilot certificate in September 1980, my commercial in April 1988, and my instrument and flight instructor in February 1990.
However I will turn 55 this year, so you have an edge there as well. :wink:

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Half Fast
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:37 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:I almost hate to say this for fear of jinxing my next applicant, but I have never had an applicant fail a checkride.


This speaks volumes, Tom, about the quality of instruction you provide. I'm afraid I can't say the same thing (but then, I believe I have been instructing longer than you - it's just a matter of time.)


I received my private pilot certificate in September 1980, my commercial in April 1988, and my instrument and flight instructor in February 1990.
However I will turn 55 this year, so you have an edge there as well. :wink:



Well, I see two possibilities:

1) You are an outstanding instructor, do a thorough job, and probably conduct a very realistic mock checkride before signing off a student.

OR

2) You are gifted at finding DPEs who are inattentive and lackadaisical in their exams, and will certify anyone for a fee who doesn't kill them in a flaming pile of crumpled aluminum.

Either way, GREAT JOB! :mrgreen:

(Though I guess the real measure of success would be to determine the percentage of students for both you and Paul who are still alive and still flying.)

:wink:
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WDD
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby WDD » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:21 pm

OK - so I'll need a CFI to endorse AFTER I get the license for B, C, D after I get the license to keep the FAA happy.

I assume the same for flying faster than 87 kts? Get the endorsement AFTER the successful check ride to make it permanent and keep the FAA happy.

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Half Fast
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:27 pm

WDD wrote:OK - so I'll need a CFI to endorse AFTER I get the license for B, C, D after I get the license to keep the FAA happy.

I assume the same for flying faster than 87 kts? Get the endorsement AFTER the successful check ride to make it permanent and keep the FAA happy.


It's a bit mixed up, I'm afraid. The speed endorsement is needed before you can solo.

Remember the FAA mission statement: "We're not happy until you're not happy."
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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:49 pm

Also, the speed endorsement is not to allow you to fly faster than 87 kts. It is to allow you to fly a plane capable of 87 kts or greater, under specified conditions (max. continuous power, sea level, standard atmosphere), regardless of the speed you actually fly.

Alternative FAA slogan: we're not happy until you're confused.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Half Fast
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:51 pm

drseti wrote:Also, the speed endorsement is not to allow you to fly faster than 87 kts. It is to allow you to fly a plane capable of 87 kts or greater, under specified conditions (max. continuous power, sea level, standard atmosphere), regardless of the speed you actually fly.


LOL! Yeah, you don't need an endorsement for <87 knots to do slow flight in a Tecnam.
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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:54 pm

Half Fast wrote:Yeah, you don't need an endorsement for <87 knots to do slow flight in a Tecnam.


True, but you do need the <87 kt endorsement to solo a J3 Cub, at any speed.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

3Dreaming
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:47 pm

WDD wrote:OK - so I'll need a CFI to endorse AFTER I get the license for B, C, D after I get the license to keep the FAA happy.

I assume the same for flying faster than 87 kts? Get the endorsement AFTER the successful check ride to make it permanent and keep the FAA happy.


In my opinion you do not need to wait until after you get your sport pilot for the airspace endorsement. As I pointed out to Paul, if you were to fly to a class D or C airport to take your checkride the 61.325 endorsement would need to be made before you receive your pilot certificate. Otherwise you could not legally fly home after passing the checkride. You would also need the airspace endorsement required by 61.94 for a sport pilot student to fly in the class D or C airspace before you arrive to do your checkride. It would need to be done in the specific airspace at the airport where you would be planning to do the ride.

The airspeed endorsement for a sport pilot student is required by 61.89, but the requirement endorsement is that required by 61.327. Because of this the endorsement for a student pilot is still valid once they become a sport pilot. Like I said before I am amazed that a private pilot student flying the same airplane doesn't need a airspeed endorsement. I guess because you are going for a private pilot you are that much more skilled that you don't need the endorsement. :roll:

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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Merlinspop » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:36 pm

Drifting a little, but curious where the complex and HP endorsements are in the booklet. People can do their PPL training in such an airplane and wouldn’t, I believe, need to be re-endorsed after earning the certificate. Same with tailwheel aircraft. But my wife would point out that I’m frequently incorrect.
- Bruce

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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:49 pm

I don't have the booklet at home, Bruce, so can't look it up, but I do know that those endorsements (tailwheel, high performance, complex) must be obtained before one can be PIC in such an aircraft. Since you could be PIC as either a solo student or a certificated pilot, those endorsements can be received either before or after the checkride.

By that same reasoning, I tend to now agree with Tom's position that Sport Pilot candidates should be able to obtain the airspace endorsement either before or after the checkride.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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FastEddieB
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:18 pm

drseti wrote:Since you could be PIC as either a solo student or a certificated pilot...


I was always under the impression that the very first hours a student pilot could log as PIC was on his or her checkride.

No?
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Warmi
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Warmi » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:23 pm

For my check ride application ( certificate ) I was told to fill out all my solo hours as PIC hours on the form.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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FastEddieB
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:40 pm

The column in logbooks often says “PIC (including solo)”.

Not that solo is PIC.

My understanding was that PIC time involved sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft in which he or she is rated. The catch is, until the checkride, he or she is not yet “rated” for the aircraft.
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Half Fast
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:42 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
drseti wrote:Since you could be PIC as either a solo student or a certificated pilot...


I was always under the impression that the very first hours a student pilot could log as PIC was on his or her checkride.

No?


I think it changed a few years ago, Eddie. Solo students do log as PIC now. I asked and was told to do the same thing. There's an AOPA article that mentions it here: https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safet ... d-pic-time .

A student pilot may log PIC time only when he/she is the sole occupant of the aircraft (exception for airship category) while training for a pilot certificate and has a current solo flight endorsement.
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FastEddieB
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:43 pm

The column in logbooks often says “PIC (including solo)”.

Not that solo is PIC.

My understanding was that PIC time involved sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft in which he or she is rated. The catch is, until the checkride, he or she is not yet “rated” for the aircraft.

edited to add: I stand corrected. It apparently changed in 1997.

A student pilot can now log PIC. That's new, and since there is no restriction, your logbook can be updated so that all student solo time prior to August 4, 1997 may be logged as PIC. When an instructor is aboard, since the student is not rated in the aircraft, flight instruction is still logged as dual not PIC.”

edited again: I see Half Fast beat me to it. Thanks!
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