Tower Endorsement

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Half Fast
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Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:33 pm

Finally! Plane and instructor coincided with acceptable weather. I finished off my tower endorsement at KLEE (Leesburg) this morning. I’ve been trying to knock this out since before Christmas, but wx or availabilities kept getting in the way.

Winds weren’t too bad when we took off from X04 but were picking up in Leesburg by the time we got there. On the way back we had a 30 knot headwind at 2000 feet, and then we got knocked around pretty good in the pattern. I managed to plop it down, though. Rain and thunderstorms moving in this afternoon, so it’s good we got up this morning.

Radio work was all good though, and I did fine with all instructions.

Glad to have the endorsement. It opens up many more destinations.
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Jim Hardin
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Jim Hardin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 am

Outstanding!!!

You are moving upward and all pilots should do that rather than stagnate and become satisfied.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:21 am

Yay!

Next time you’re up my way we can try to plan a trip to Knoxville’s Class C, either as an intro to Class C or maybe working an endorsement in there if you still need it.
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Half Fast
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:47 am

FastEddieB wrote:Yay!

Next time you’re up my way we can try to plan a trip to Knoxville’s Class C, either as an intro to Class C or maybe working an endorsement in there if you still need it.



That would be outstanding. My CFI recommended I fly with an instructor my first time into a Class C, even if it isn't required by the endorsement, and I told him I certainly would. He offered to go over to Sanford with me whenever I want, but Knoxville would be great.

Hope I can get up there sometime soon. Now that my son is out of the house, travel has actually become more difficult since we no longer have anyone to care for the horses. Some days I wish I'd married a woman who liked goldfish...
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TimTaylor
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:18 pm

Did he endorse you for B, C, and D or just D?
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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WDD
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby WDD » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:50 pm

Just double checking for the future -

Before you have your Sport Pilot license, you can get all the training in the world for B, C, D airspace. But it won't be permanent. You can get an endorsement for a specific B, C, D airport, but not for ANY B, C, D airport.

You have to get your permanent endorsement for any B, C, D airspace AFTER you get your license.

So... if I get a lot of B, C, D training from a CFI before I get the license, I would then have to go back to the CFI AFTER I get my license and have her put the endorsement in the log book?

Or would I have to re - do all the B, C, D training?

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Half Fast
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby Half Fast » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:05 pm

WDD wrote:Just double checking for the future -

Before you have your Sport Pilot license, you can get all the training in the world for B, C, D airspace. But it won't be permanent. You can get an endorsement for a specific B, C, D airport, but not for ANY B, C, D airport.

You have to get your permanent endorsement for any B, C, D airspace AFTER you get your license.

So... if I get a lot of B, C, D training from a CFI before I get the license, I would then have to go back to the CFI AFTER I get my license and have her put the endorsement in the log book?

Or would I have to re - do all the B, C, D training?



Well, common sense doesn't always (or even often) apply to the regs, but FAR 61.325 says

"The authorized instructor who provides this training must provide a logbook endorsement that certifies you are proficient in the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation:...."

I don't know why an instructor who trained you at a controlled airport couldn't endorse that you are proficient assuming you had satisfied all the requirements (like 3 full-stop landings at a controlled airport) while a student.

But I'd like to hear Paul's opinion.
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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:00 pm

Half Fast wrote:
But I'd like to hear Paul's opinion.


Since the blanket airspace endorsement is considered a Sport Pilot endorsement, I don't see that it would be appropriate to give it to a Student Pilot. Once you're licensed, if you've already received the required training, there's no reason your CFI can't immediately give you the endorsement. (Your CFI could even sign you off the day you pass your checkride.)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:31 pm

drseti wrote:
Half Fast wrote:
But I'd like to hear Paul's opinion.


Since the blanket airspace endorsement is considered a Sport Pilot endorsement, I don't see that it would be appropriate to give it to a Student Pilot. Once you're licensed, if you've already received the required training, there's no reason your CFI can't immediately give you the endorsement. (Your CFI could even sign you off the day you pass your checkride.)


Paul, I see no valid reason to not give the endorsement while someone is still a student pilot if the required training has been done. Giving the endorsement will not give the student pilot any additional privileges. In fact the endorsement wouldn't become valid until they are a sport pilot.

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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:55 pm

Tom, are you a member of NAFI? One of their membership benefits is a booklet of endorsements - helps me get the language right, and lets me know when to give which one, and its regulatory basis. The booklet is divided into sections: Student Pilot endorsements, Cross-Country endorsements, Sport Pilot endorsements, Rec Pilot endorsrments, etc. The Airspace endorsement is in the Sport Pilot section, but not the Student pilot one. That is why I don't give it until after a successful Practical Test - it appears not to be an authorized Student Pilot endorsement.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

3Dreaming
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:16 am

drseti wrote:Tom, are you a member of NAFI? One of their membership benefits is a booklet of endorsements - helps me get the language right, and lets me know when to give which one, and its regulatory basis. The booklet is divided into sections: Student Pilot endorsements, Cross-Country endorsements, Sport Pilot endorsements, Rec Pilot endorsrments, etc. The Airspace endorsement is in the Sport Pilot section, but not the Student pilot one. That is why I don't give it until after a successful Practical Test - it appears not to be an authorized Student Pilot endorsement.


I am not a NAFI member, but maybe I should be. Just because an endorsement is in the sport pilot section doesn't mean it can't be given when they are still a student pilot. In fact the airspeed endorsement required by 61.327 is a sport pilot endorsement, but it is required by regulation to be given to a student pilot prior to making solo flights in a light sport airplane, if they are seeking sport pilot privileges. What I find odd is that a private pilot student in the same airplane doesn't need the endorsement. Since the endorsement doesn't give any privileges to a student pilot I see no liability risk in making it before the checkride, if the training has been done and they are proficient.

When would you make the endorsement if you were sending the applicant to a class D or C airport for their practical test? Of course they would need the endorsement of 61.94 to go to the checkride, but once they pass the ride it is not valid anymore since it is a student pilot endorsement.

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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:00 am

3Dreaming wrote:When would you make the endorsement if you were sending the applicant to a class D or C airport for their practical test? Of course they would need the endorsement of 61.94 to go to the checkride, but once they pass the ride it is not valid anymore since it is a student pilot endorsement.


You assume the student is planning to fly back home after passing the checkride. ;)

OK, point well taken.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

3Dreaming
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:27 am

drseti wrote:
3Dreaming wrote: You assume the student is planning to fly back home after passing the checkride. ;)

OK, point well taken.


I almost hate to say this for fear of jinxing my next applicant, but I have never had an applicant fail a checkride.

rcpilot
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby rcpilot » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:28 pm

Well, my instructor did not do my air space endorsement before my check ride. His reasoning was I couldn't be quizzed on it. We did it afterwards.

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drseti
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Re: Tower Endorsement

Postby drseti » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:38 pm

3Dreaming wrote:I almost hate to say this for fear of jinxing my next applicant, but I have never had an applicant fail a checkride.


This speaks volumes, Tom, about the quality of instruction you provide. I'm afraid I can't say the same thing (but then, I believe I have been instructing longer than you - it's just a matter of time.)
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


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