Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

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Warmi
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby Warmi » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:01 pm

WDD wrote:....
Therefore, I need to have the CFI teach each of the 10 sections and sign off when he/she thinks I am proficient at each section, keeping in mind the 14 points listed above. Therefore, if the log book shows proficiency for all 10 sections, then I should be able to get the CFI to authorize the practical test.

Am I on track?


Well, the stuff you listed is mostly relevant to the written test ( and then also your check-ride oral portion of the test .)
Normally, this is something you will either learn during ground lessons or , more likely, just studying yourself.

My experience has been that generally your CFI will not endorse you for the final check-ride until he feels that both , your flying skills ( practical ) and your theoretical knowledge are up to his/her standards.
Most of actual endorsements are related to your actual flying skills ( solo, cross-country etc etc ) but for theoretical stuff, I had to first pass my written FAA test and then,in my case, just before my check-ride , I spent about 2 hours being grilled by my CFI on just about every relevant subject, basically a mock-up oral portion of the check-ride.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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WDD
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby WDD » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:12 pm

Warmi wrote:

... just before my check-ride , I spent about 2 hours being grilled by my CFI on just about every relevant subject, basically a mock-up oral portion of the check-ride.


Ah - got it. So I should expect / plan a session with the CFI to drill and do a mock oral portion of the check ride. What about the "final hour of flight instruction" being a mock practical test?

Good things to know. THANKS!

TimTaylor
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:30 pm

Personally, I think all you need to do is find a good flight school with good instructor and good equipment. Your instructor will follow a syllabus and make sure you get the training you need. He is not going to send you for your written, much less your flight test, if you are not adequately prepared to ace said test.

That said, it is always a good idea to follow along with your own copy of the flight test standards and FAR's to make sure you have all the required hours and logbook endorsements, etc. After all, any instructor could over look something. However, you don't need to act or feel as if your instructor doesn't know what he is doing or act like you know more than he does. Some people here have said they got a Sport Pilot certificate with no instrument training. That should never happen because instrument training is required before a student takes his first solo cross-country flight.

Anyway, find a flight school with good instructor, relax, and go have fun learning to fly and getting your certificate. Don't over-think this.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:53 pm

TimTaylor wrote: Some people here have said they got a Sport Pilot certificate with no instrument training. That should never happen because instrument training is required before a student takes his first solo cross-country flight.


I don't disagree that getting some instrument training is a good Idea, but with some LSA it is not possible. I think that is the case with what the FAA had envisioned people flying when the rule was implemented.
The requirement for instrument training for sport pilots wasn't included until April 2010, and then only if you are flying a airplane with a Vh of greater than 87 kts.

(e) Maneuvers and procedures for cross-country flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for cross-country flight in a single-engine airplane must receive and log flight training in the following maneuvers and procedures:

(12) Control and maneuvering solely by reference to flight instruments, including straight and level flight, turns, descents, climbs, use of radio aids, and ATC directives. For student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate, the provisions of this paragraph only apply when receiving training for cross-country flight in an airplane that has a VH greater than 87 knots CAS

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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby drseti » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:53 pm

joey4420 wrote:Personally I would not do Rec pilot for the simple no more then 50 miles from departure airport, ugh.



It's time we addressed that 50 mile myth..yes, it's true that there is such a restriction on new Rec pilots, out of the box. But all it takes is some XC training and an endorsement to remove the restriction.
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TimTaylor
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:01 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote: Some people here have said they got a Sport Pilot certificate with no instrument training. That should never happen because instrument training is required before a student takes his first solo cross-country flight.


I don't disagree that getting some instrument training is a good Idea, but with some LSA it is not possible. I think that is the case with what the FAA had envisioned people flying when the rule was implemented.
The requirement for instrument training for sport pilots wasn't included until April 2010, and then only if you are flying a airplane with a Vh of greater than 87 kts.

(e) Maneuvers and procedures for cross-country flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for cross-country flight in a single-engine airplane must receive and log flight training in the following maneuvers and procedures:

(12) Control and maneuvering solely by reference to flight instruments, including straight and level flight, turns, descents, climbs, use of radio aids, and ATC directives. For student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate, the provisions of this paragraph only apply when receiving training for cross-country flight in an airplane that has a VH greater than 87 knots CAS

Of course. Does anyone fly cross country in an airplane less than 87 knots? I guess, maybe.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Half Fast
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby Half Fast » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:49 pm

drseti wrote:
joey4420 wrote:Personally I would not do Rec pilot for the simple no more then 50 miles from departure airport, ugh.



It's time we addressed that 50 mile myth..yes, it's true that there is such a restriction on new Rec pilots, out of the box. But all it takes is some XC training and an endorsement to remove the restriction.



Paul, if a SP is getting a Rec ticket, does the SP XC already satisfy the Rec XC training? Seems like the endorsement for an upgrading SP would be automatic.

Of course, there are so few Rec pilots, I doubt if anyone has gone from SP to Rec yet.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:51 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote: Some people here have said they got a Sport Pilot certificate with no instrument training. That should never happen because instrument training is required before a student takes his first solo cross-country flight.


I don't disagree that getting some instrument training is a good Idea, but with some LSA it is not possible. I think that is the case with what the FAA had envisioned people flying when the rule was implemented.
The requirement for instrument training for sport pilots wasn't included until April 2010, and then only if you are flying a airplane with a Vh of greater than 87 kts.

(e) Maneuvers and procedures for cross-country flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for cross-country flight in a single-engine airplane must receive and log flight training in the following maneuvers and procedures:

(12) Control and maneuvering solely by reference to flight instruments, including straight and level flight, turns, descents, climbs, use of radio aids, and ATC directives. For student pilots seeking a sport pilot certificate, the provisions of this paragraph only apply when receiving training for cross-country flight in an airplane that has a VH greater than 87 knots CAS

Of course. Does anyone fly cross country in an airplane less than 87 knots? I guess, maybe.


I have my oldest son doing his private pilot training in my dad's 1941 Taylorcraft. It has a Vh of less than 87 kts. He will be doing his cross country flight training in that aircraft, even if I have to fly ahead to handle hand propping duties. There are several vintage LSA and some new SLSA with Vh of less than 87 kts.

Now if you are doing private pilot in a LSA you need the instrument training regardless. The Taylorcraft has needle ball and airspeed, so were set.

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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:53 pm

Half Fast wrote:
drseti wrote:
joey4420 wrote:Personally I would not do Rec pilot for the simple no more then 50 miles from departure airport, ugh.



It's time we addressed that 50 mile myth..yes, it's true that there is such a restriction on new Rec pilots, out of the box. But all it takes is some XC training and an endorsement to remove the restriction.



Paul, if a SP is getting a Rec ticket, does the SP XC already satisfy the Rec XC training? Seems like the endorsement for an upgrading SP would be automatic.

Of course, there are so few Rec pilots, I doubt if anyone has gone from SP to Rec yet.

It would if the flights met the minimum distances, etc. spelled out in the Recreation Pilot requirements. You would have to read the requirements for Recreation Pilot and compare the requirements to your logged flights to see. You might need an additional endorsement referencing the proper FAR's, etc. since you are flying larger aircraft, not flying as a Sport PIlot.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:58 pm

Half Fast wrote:
drseti wrote:
joey4420 wrote:Personally I would not do Rec pilot for the simple no more then 50 miles from departure airport, ugh.



It's time we addressed that 50 mile myth..yes, it's true that there is such a restriction on new Rec pilots, out of the box. But all it takes is some XC training and an endorsement to remove the restriction.



Paul, if a SP is getting a Rec ticket, does the SP XC already satisfy the Rec XC training? Seems like the endorsement for an upgrading SP would be automatic.

Of course, there are so few Rec pilots, I doubt if anyone has gone from SP to Rec yet.


The way the regulations are written I would have to say no, but if your sport pilot training was with a sub part H instructor your sport pilot training contains 2/3 of the required training to meet the requirements for recreational pilot.

Some might ask why would you want to go from sport to recreational, but I understand that it is the increased aircraft availability, and higher performance airplanes, like a RV6. You could also add a helicopter rating to a recreational, but not a sport.

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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:00 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
Half Fast wrote:
drseti wrote:

It's time we addressed that 50 mile myth..yes, it's true that there is such a restriction on new Rec pilots, out of the box. But all it takes is some XC training and an endorsement to remove the restriction.



Paul, if a SP is getting a Rec ticket, does the SP XC already satisfy the Rec XC training? Seems like the endorsement for an upgrading SP would be automatic.

Of course, there are so few Rec pilots, I doubt if anyone has gone from SP to Rec yet.
It would if the flights met the minimum distances, etc. spelled out in the Recreation Pilot requirements. You would have to read the requirements for Recreation Pilot and compare the requirements to your logged flights to see.


Recreational pilot doesn't have any cross country requirements. That is why you have to do extra cross country training for a recreational pilot to be able to exercise sport pilot privileges without a medical.

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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:07 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
Half Fast wrote:

Paul, if a SP is getting a Rec ticket, does the SP XC already satisfy the Rec XC training? Seems like the endorsement for an upgrading SP would be automatic.

Of course, there are so few Rec pilots, I doubt if anyone has gone from SP to Rec yet.
It would if the flights met the minimum distances, etc. spelled out in the Recreation Pilot requirements. You would have to read the requirements for Recreation Pilot and compare the requirements to your logged flights to see.


Recreational pilot doesn't have any cross country requirements. That is why you have to do extra cross country training for a recreational pilot to be able to exercise sport pilot privileges without a medical.

Why would a Recreation PIlot want to exercise Sport PIlot priviledges? If he is a Recreational Pilot with a medical, he would get the cross-country training and fly cross country as a Recreational Pilot so he can fly larger aircraft.
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby Warmi » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:28 pm

This discussion reminds of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_man ... f_a_pin%3F

There are 300 recreational pilots across the total pool of 300 000 000 potential applicants - a reasonable solution would be to ditch the certification even only to save taxpayers money in just maintaining all these empty and useless rules and regulations nobody will ever use but that I guess would be a bit too sane ?
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:42 pm

Warmi wrote:This discussion reminds of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_man ... f_a_pin%3F

There are 300 recreational pilots across the total pool of 300 000 000 potential applicants - a reasonable solution would be to ditch the certification even only to save taxpayers money in just maintaining all these empty and useless rules and regulations nobody will ever use but that I guess would be a bit too sane ?

Not useless to the people who have the rating, and what's to maintain? Most of your post remind me of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Half Fast
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Re: Looking for a CFI - not that easy

Postby Half Fast » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:57 pm

Warmi wrote:This discussion reminds of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_man ... f_a_pin%3F

There are 300 recreational pilots across the total pool of 300 000 000 potential applicants - a reasonable solution would be to ditch the certification even only to save taxpayers money in just maintaining all these empty and useless rules and regulations nobody will ever use but that I guess would be a bit too sane ?



If ditching Rec included increasing the LSA weight limit, so as to include planes available to a Rec pilot, I'd be all for it. That way those 300 could keep flying whatever they're flying, and we SPs would have a good fleet of used aircraft available to us.
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