Last gasp of training, then.....

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foresterpoole
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Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby foresterpoole » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:12 pm

OK, so I have finished up all the required training for private plus 1 extra hour of night, I'm ready for the 5 hours of additional solo and the longer cross county required for the PPL. I passed the written today with a 95, so the checkride is fast approaching. I'd like a little advise, I've been flying a 172SP for night, instrument and x country, however I've still got more time in the Technam. So my question, should I continue to fly the 172 or just fly the Technam for the cross country and checkride? As I understand it it's perfectly acceptable to fly the light sport for the checkride. The 172 is more stable, and more powerful, however, the Technam is easier to fly and much simpler (less gadgets and gizmos, yes I know what those are and how to use them) and cheaper to rent. I'm comfortable in both, so if you were the DPE or me what would you do????
Ed

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby Jim Hardin » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:58 am

Go with the one that you are the master of!

My thinking would be that the POH of the C172 is much more detailed and could trip you up a bit during the oral. If it does, that can influence your confidence for the flight phase...

But above all else, stick with the one you are confident in and keep in mind that you are just two fellow pilots flying together and you are going to show him some of the things you did during your training.

3Dreaming
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:51 am

Does the Tecnam have enough basic instruments to simulate flight in IMC? Does the Tecnam have a means of electronic navigation? Those are both things that you will need to demonstrate on your checkride.

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MrMorden
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:11 am

3Dreaming wrote:Does the Tecnam have enough basic instruments to simulate flight in IMC? Does the Tecnam have a means of electronic navigation? Those are both things that you will need to demonstrate on your checkride.


Haven't lots of pilots taken their check rides in J3 Cubs and such?
Andy Walker
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3Dreaming
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:55 am

MrMorden wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:Does the Tecnam have enough basic instruments to simulate flight in IMC? Does the Tecnam have a means of electronic navigation? Those are both things that you will need to demonstrate on your checkride.


Haven't lots of pilots taken their check rides in J3 Cubs and such?


They have, but the ACS state that, "• Capable of performing all Areas of Operation appropriate to the rating sought and have no operating limitations, which prohibit its use in any of the Area of Operation, required for the practical test.". Since basic instrument flight and use of electronic navigation are required elements of the test the applicant must provide a aircraft capable of performing the task.

TimTaylor
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:29 pm

What if the examiner weighs 300 pounds and wants you to demonstrate VOR navigation? I think I would get totally proficient in the C172 and use it.

foresterpoole
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby foresterpoole » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:37 pm

The Tecnam does have a rudimentary GPS, so the electronic nav is A-OK, no VOR though. The instruments are basic day/night VFR, and it's not (according to the POH) are not permitted into IMC, it does have everything instrument wise except the clock. I am OK in both, the turns around a point, s-turns and steep turns are easier in the Cessna because of it's stability, but landing I'm much smoother in the Tecnam. Of course I've got 38 hours in the Tecnam and only 10 or so in the Cessna so picking up the sight picture might be part of that as well. I've never botched a landing badly in the Cessna, but I have 1-bounced it a few times which I have never done in the Tecnam and this worries me a bit, I can soft field and short field land the Technam much easier as well. Owe well, I'll probably go ahead and "test fly" both to see if I have a preference after all this weather blows through, just wondered if anyone had an opinion and it seems like some good advice so far!
Ed

foresterpoole
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby foresterpoole » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:39 pm

Hey Tim, the examiner is 160 lbs and I'm 155 so weight is not a factor, no VOR, so that's a factor as well...
Ed

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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:50 pm

TimTaylor wrote:What if the examiner weighs 300 pounds and wants you to demonstrate VOR navigation? I think I would get totally proficient in the C172 and use it.


So what if the examiner weighs 300 pounds. As long as you are within gross weight and CG range, and not exceeding some other limit place on the airplane you are OK.
As for wanting you to demonstrate VOR navigation, it is only required if the airplane is equipped with a VOR. If it only has a GPS then you can use that to comply with the standards. The standards do not require that you demonstrate navigation by VOR. If he chooses he can ask you about VOR navigation on the oral, because it is required knowledge.

As a side note, the means of electronic navigation must be permanently mounted in the airplane. You can not use a portable GPS.

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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:57 pm

foresterpoole wrote:The Tecnam does have a rudimentary GPS, so the electronic nav is A-OK, no VOR though. The instruments are basic day/night VFR, and it's not (according to the POH) are not permitted into IMC, it does have everything instrument wise except the clock. I am OK in both, the turns around a point, s-turns and steep turns are easier in the Cessna because of it's stability, but landing I'm much smoother in the Tecnam. Of course I've got 38 hours in the Tecnam and only 10 or so in the Cessna so picking up the sight picture might be part of that as well. I've never botched a landing badly in the Cessna, but I have 1-bounced it a few times which I have never done in the Tecnam and this worries me a bit, I can soft field and short field land the Technam much easier as well. Owe well, I'll probably go ahead and "test fly" both to see if I have a preference after all this weather blows through, just wondered if anyone had an opinion and it seems like some good advice so far!


ASTM requires some kind of attitude instrument for night flight, so if it is approved for night you should be good. As long as you can perform your basic instrument maneuvers and unusual attitudes under the hood you are OK. For Navigation as long as you can find a airport or waypoint with the GPS you should be OK there too. You could have continued with your private training in the Tecnam instead of switching airplanes if it met the above requirements.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:09 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
As a side note, the means of electronic navigation must be permanently mounted in the airplane. You can not use a portable GPS.


Just curious, where does it say that?
Fast Eddie B.
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TimTaylor
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:24 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:What if the examiner weighs 300 pounds and wants you to demonstrate VOR navigation? I think I would get totally proficient in the C172 and use it.


So what if the examiner weighs 300 pounds. As long as you are within gross weight and CG range, and not exceeding some other limit place on the airplane you are OK.

Well, of course.

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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:08 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
As a side note, the means of electronic navigation must be permanently mounted in the airplane. You can not use a portable GPS.


Just curious, where does it say that?


I don't have time to dig, but I seem to remember a letter or ruling on this when the portable GPS's started to come into use. A 496 or the like in a Airgizmo mount is OK for a SLSA or experimental. If it is installed in a standard category airplane then your paper work needs to be in order. I know for a while the FAA did not like approving Airgizmo mounts. I don't know if they have relaxed any yet or not.

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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:47 pm

OK I took time and did some digging anyway. What I remembered had changed, changed back, and is about to change again. It looks like it will be OK to use a portable GPS to comply with the navigation requirements of the private pilot checkride.
https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviatio ... O17003.pdf

You still have to be able to do the basic instrument work. I have talked with the DPE that I use and he is OK with needle ball and airspeed. That is good for my son, who I am training in my fathers Taylorcraft.

foresterpoole
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Re: Last gasp of training, then.....

Postby foresterpoole » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:44 pm

Wow thanks for digging 3D, the link was very informative. I always wondered if they would balk at my use of Garmin Pilot as a kneeboard, looks like I can but better know how to use it (which I do). I used it for my sport cross country and probably will use it for my long cross country as a back up and EFB for frequencies along with the Garmin GNS 430W in the Cessna.
Ed


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