Instrument Trainining

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

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foresterpoole
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Instrument Trainining

Postby foresterpoole » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:52 pm

Did full hour under the hood yesterday after a few touch and goes at a sleepy class D (AEX). My instrument experience was very limited training for sport. I'd have to say I think sport should have covered a bit more of it in my opinion. After some standard climb, descent, and turns we did unusual attitudes/recovery and some spatial disorientation (he tossed the plane around for 2-3 minutes at a time then handed the controls over). I'd have to say that was the craziest feeling I've had in a plane yet. I'm sure most of you will laugh, but man it felt like we were doing loops! It was so easy to get a vertical 100' oscillation going and very hard to smooth it out. He fed me vectors back to the airport and we tried an simulated instrument approach which did not turn out as planned, I came in about 200 yards to the left of center when he told me to take the hood off and look. Hat is off the the instrument rated guys!
Ed

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby Jim Hardin » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:50 am

Sounds like you enjoyed it!

Correction!Of course there is NO requirement for instrument training in a Sport Pilot certificate and personally I do not do any nor do any of the other instructors why I fly. This is NOT correct as Paul pointed out later on in this thread. Reference FAR 61.93(e)12)

But you are right about the the rewards of instrument flying. Just nothing like the feeling of keeping the needles centered on the approach and breaking out at 200 feet with the runway right where it should be :D
Last edited by Jim Hardin on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

rcpilot
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby rcpilot » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:10 am

Jim Hardin wrote:Sounds like you enjoyed it!

Of course there is NO requirement for instrument training in a Sport Pilot certificate and personally I do not do any nor do any of the other instructors why I fly.

But you are right about the the rewards of instrument flying. Just nothing like the feeling of keeping the needles centered on the approach and breaking out at 200 feet with the runway right where it should be :D


Well, actually there is. And it bit me on the butt when I went for my check ride. The rule is if your plane has a Vh>87 knots you must have instrument training and that must occur before your x-country. From previous posts here I had discussed this with my instructor but apparently it's a poorly understood requirement and we didn't do what was needed. The DPE pointed it out to me, told me just have my instructor give me like 20 minutes instrument time in any airplane and then we could reschedule. We flew in the school's Skycatcher which has an EFIS. He signed me off and I got my check ride.

rsteele
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby rsteele » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:20 am

The requirement for instrument training was added a few years after the SP rule took effect. I never had nor needed any for my check ride.

Ron

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joey4420
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby joey4420 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:29 am

Where is the stated requirement for hood time? I just completed my Sport Certificate and it was not required for me, at least I didn't do it, nor did the DPE ask about it.
Joey
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drseti
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby drseti » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:43 am

That's because it's not in FAR 61 Subpart J where you'd expect it to be (and where all the other Sport Pilot training requirements are). It was added to the section of Part 61 Subpart C dealing with student pilot XC training requirements (not SP specific) and applies to any aircraft with a Vh>87 KIAS, whether LSA or not. We had a long thread about this here a couple of years ago - maybe someone can find it with the site search engine and post the link on this thread?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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drseti
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby drseti » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:54 am

Found the reg: 61.93 (e)(12). Most CFIs don't know about this. It was NOT covered in my most recent Flight Instructor Renewel course two weeks ago
:(
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
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AvSport.org
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joey4420
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby joey4420 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:35 pm

Wow, I guess I need to go get with a CFI and get that done just to be on the safe side.
Joey
Cincinnati OH
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Ercoupe N99773

TimTaylor
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:50 pm

Personally, I don't think anyone should leave the pattern solo without instrument training.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

3Dreaming
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:05 pm

There has been more than one student sent home by a DPE for not having the endorsement. Any solo crosscountry time for a sport pilot student is invalid without the endorsement. There is also a requirement for the greater than or les than 87kt endorsement for sport student pilots.

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby Jim Hardin » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:06 am

drseti wrote:Found the reg: 61.93 (e)(12). Most CFIs don't know about this. It was NOT covered in my most recent Flight Instructor Renewel course two weeks ago
:(


Thanks for that Paul! I have corrected my post as well as my training :D

foresterpoole
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby foresterpoole » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:58 pm

Well, I've got another few hours under the hood to go, Friday I'm looking at two hours night (flew 2 night hours last week). However the weather looks marginal VFR, I may be crazy, but I think it would be a great exercise to actually fly night IFR/IMC (with a CFII) for both night and instrument hours. Has anyone had the opportunity to train like this, or has been the instructor in this type of situation? I guess it would require an IFR flight plan to be filed, another learning opportunity, but what is the legality or more appropriately the legality of me training under his IFR filed flight???
Ed

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drseti
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby drseti » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:08 pm

Ed, I've always made a point of taking my instrument students into actual IMC toward the end of their training, to give them a chance to work the system for real. But, I would be hesitant to do so with primary students, because in actual, their actions can negatively impact other airspace users (and, let's face it, in order to learn from one's mustakes, one has to be allowed to make them).
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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drseti
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby drseti » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:13 pm

As for the legality of training in actual IFR, it depends on the aircraft. In a certified aircraft properly IFR equipped, with all required inspections current, I wouldn't hesitate unless low IMC prevailed. But, my primary trainer is an SLSA. Although much better equipped than just about any IFR certified aircraft I've ever flown, ASTM rules prevent one from legally filing an IFR flight plan or taking it into actual IMC.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

3Dreaming
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Re: Instrument Trainining

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:29 pm

drseti wrote:As for the legality of training in actual IFR, it depends on the aircraft. In a certified aircraft properly IFR equipped, with all required inspections current, I wouldn't hesitate unless low IMC prevailed. But, my primary trainer is an SLSA. Although much better equipped than just about any IFR certified aircraft I've ever flown, ASTM rules prevent one from legally filing an IFR flight plan or taking it into actual IMC.


Paul, would you please provide the source that prevents a SLSA from legally filing a IFR flight plan? I was under the opinion that it was only flight in IMC that was prohibited.


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