Buying your own plane for training

[rcpilot]

Ok, so we're getting closer to the start of my lessons. Got my student certificate from the FSDO yesterday. Registered with the school this morning only to find out my instructor is in Spain. Their mechanic also needs to give his approval which probably isn't going to happen today with the weather. It's like having a new toy you can't play with.

[FastEddieB]

It's like having a new toy you can't play with.

Well, you can always go wash and wax it!

Or just sit in it and make vroom vroom noises!

[3Dreaming]

If your CFI hasn't had a checkout in the plane I would suggest at a minimum that he talks to someone that is familiar with how the airplane flies before he makes a flight in it.

[Jack Tyler]

The tax referred to by some is a Use Tax. Each state has their own way of dealing with that, as some of the posts demonstrate. FAA registrations, just like state boat registrations, are now coordinated across all the state revenue offices, so the sale will be reported to the OP's home state.

rcpilot, congratulations! You have selected the Full Immersion Option and I don't think you'll have any regrets. Unlike renters, you'll learn over time not just how to fly but how to own, as well. They require different skill sets and your flying will benefit from your owning. Glad Andy mentioned the wing mod; please pay attention to his post.

[deltafox]

This is the first airplane I've owned. There should be another rating for ownership because the amount of knowledge required at least equals that of Pilot Rating. I only wish I would have done it sooner.

[CTLSi]

If one can afford to own and train it's a win/win.

We bought a new CTLSi (and later upgraded it with the Sport package, so now it's a CTLSiS) with no aviation experience at all.

We used it to do all of my private pilot training, and about half of the wife's sport pilot training. She is using it to finish her private pilots training now and will checkride in about two weeks in it.

We are going to upgrade the avionics and add a second radio, the GNC255 to now do instrument training in the same plane (we are studying now to take the instrument written). The cost of the upgrade will be more than offset by the savings not having to rent an IFR equipped plane.

Once we are done we will sell the plane for almost what we paid for it. Hundreds of hours of flying for virtually free (except the cost of the Mogas, the annuals, the oil changes, the hangar, the CFI and fees to checkride).

[drseti]

Sorry to be so late to the party, folks. Busy week of flight training.

I think Prof Shuch can shed some light on the real profit margin that flight schools look for or achieve when renting out planes.

I think that if they are completely honest with themselves, most flight school operators will have to admit that they operate their rental fleet at break-even. What profit we make in this business comes not from the aircraft, but from what we charge for flight and ground instruction, and what we earn selling books, training materials, charts, headsets, and pilot supplies. The plane is essentially a loss leader, because of the high cost of commercial insurance, a flight school's need to keep relatively new aircraft on the flight line, the binding nature of service bulletins and TBO, the need for 100 hour condition inspections, and the fact that students and renters are really hard on planes (a private owner can expect tires and brake pads, for example, to last five to ten times as long as they do in rental aircraft). So, in theory at least, owning should be cheaper than renting.

Where this falls apart is in economies of scale, as well as tax advantages. An FBO gets a pretty good write-off on aircraft purchase, upkeep, and maintenance, which are unavailable to the private owner. And, a plane that flies 500 hours a year can amortize its fixed (hangar and insurance) costs over ten times the flight hours, as compared to an individual. So, in my experience, it ends up a toss-up. Buying an airplane to achieve savings is a bit like buying a brothel to achieve chastity.

But then, there are those intangibles. Just what is it worth in convenience, self image, and peace of mind to own the broth-- er, airplane? Only you can answer that!

[drseti]

Typically sales tax doesn't apply when buying products from individuals vs. businesses/dealers (YMMV).

At least in my state (PA), the dep't of revenue gets the bill of sale from the FAA, and assesses the new owner with 6% use tax, regardless of whether either the buyer or seller is a business or an individual. If the plane is to be used in commercial service (flight school or rental aircraft), the use tax can be deferred, and paid out monthly or quarterly based upon actual flight hours.

[dstclair]

Typically sales tax doesn't apply when buying products from individuals vs. businesses/dealers (YMMV).

At least in my state (PA), the dep't of revenue gets the bill of sale from the FAA, and assesses the new owner with 6% use tax, regardless of whether either the buyer or seller is a business or an individual. If the plane is to be used in commercial service (flight school or rental aircraft), the use tax can be deferred, and paid out monthly or quarterly based upon actual flight hours.

One more reason I like living in the Republic of Texas

There is a sales/use tax exemption for aircraft sold by someone not in the sales business:

Occasional Sale Exemptions
Sometimes sales tax exemptions of general application prevent tax in an aircraft transaction.
For example, a person who does not hold a sales tax permit and who is not in the business of selling
tangible personal property can make up to two sales of tangible personal property in a rolling 12
month period tax free. This exemption does not apply if the buyer holds a sales tax permit, and it
does not apply to leases. The occasional sale exemption can also exempt sales of aircraft in certain
business reorganizations and bulk sale transactions.

[rcpilot]

So, finally getting near the start of my training. Last week got the OK from the school's mechanic. My CFI took the plane up to start flying off his 5 hours and is so far satisfied with the performance of the plane. There are a couple minor maintenance issues that need to be looked at but by the end of the week he should satisfy the insurance requirement. I've already booked him for the next six weeks, twice a week for my lessons so if all goes well next Tuesday I'll finally get to take to the air in my plane!

[HAPPYDAN]

So, finally getting near the start of my training. Last week got the OK from the school's mechanic. My CFI took the plane up to start flying off his 5 hours and is so far satisfied with the performance of the plane. There are a couple minor maintenance issues that need to be looked at but by the end of the week he should satisfy the insurance requirement. I've already booked him for the next six weeks, twice a week for my lessons so if all goes well next Tuesday I'll finally get to take to the air in my plane!

I think buying your own plane to train in is a pretty brave act. As a 33 hour student, I can see many advantages, tho. Regarding preflight, emergency procedures, and approach to landing, you can sit (for hours) in your plane with the POH and a cuppa coffee and run thru the steps until you see them in your sleep. You'll impress your CFI. But I would like to offer this warning: Recently, I suffered a big setback, referred to as "the learning plateau". This great article from AOPA provided the help I needed to push thru, so I'll be back on track shortly. here's the site: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine ... ateau.html
So Good luck and Godspeed!

P.S. If you don't set off the ELT, your landing wasn't that bad!

[rcpilot]

So, finally getting near the start of my training. Last week got the OK from the school's mechanic. My CFI took the plane up to start flying off his 5 hours and is so far satisfied with the performance of the plane. There are a couple minor maintenance issues that need to be looked at but by the end of the week he should satisfy the insurance requirement. I've already booked him for the next six weeks, twice a week for my lessons so if all goes well next Tuesday I'll finally get to take to the air in my plane!

I think buying your own plane to train in is a pretty brave act. As a 33 hour student, I can see many advantages, tho. Regarding preflight, emergency procedures, and approach to landing, you can sit (for hours) in your plane with the POH and a cuppa coffee and run thru the steps until you see them in your sleep. You'll impress your CFI. But I would like to offer this warning: Recently, I suffered a big setback, referred to as "the learning plateau". This great article from AOPA provided the help I needed to push thru, so I'll be back on track shortly. here's the site: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine ... ateau.html
So Good luck and Godspeed!

P.S. If you don't set off the ELT, your landing wasn't that bad!

Thanks for the tip. After speaking with my instructor, I'm more convinced than ever that I did the right thing. He really didn't have anything good to say about the Skycatcher (no offense to any Skycatcher owners out there). He started out as a sport pilot/sport instructor and apparently has considerable experience in planes similar to mine and seems to be looking forward to flying/instructing me in it.

[CTLSi]

So,

Recently, I suffered a big setback, referred to as "the learning plateau". This great article from AOPA provided the help I needed to push thru, so I'll be back on track shortly. here's the site: http://flighttraining.aopa.org/magazine ... ateau.html

Many do drop out and it's a shame because the skills and the success will come it does require PATIENCE. And you need to avoid no big gaps in going up.

I hit a wall on landing technique and started to question finishing at all...my CFII suggested going up with another CFI who was more technical and could explain things from an aerodynamics viewpoint.

One hour in the air with the former NASA aeronautical engineer and I was landing like a pro. For me, it was hearing the magic phrase 'velocity vector' and that gave me the assurance that the plane would behave all I needed to do was get out of it's way and let the laws of physics work.

If you hit a wall, try going up with someone else and explain what you THINK your problem is, you will be surprised how another set of eyes and knowledge base can quickly unravel the mystery and get you to the finish line.

On owning your plane and training. Consider this, you want to fly but can't rent a plane...you are grounded until you can find one...But, as an owner you go up whenever you want and fly for as long as you want the only added cost is fuel and the CFI. You become less pressured to finish since you are not ticking up the hourly wet rental rate in your head...and you ingrain the plane you will checkride in better than any rental. Its a pure win/win....

[drseti]

as an owner you go up whenever you want and fly for as long as you want

Well, not exactly. As a student pilot, you are still operating under the supervision of a CFI. So, you can go up whenever you want and your CFI approves, and fly as long as you want and your CFI will authorize.

[CTLSi]

as an owner you go up whenever you want and fly for as long as you want

Well, not exactly. As a student pilot, you are still operating under the supervision of a CFI. So, you can go up whenever you want and your CFI approves, and fly as long as you want and your CFI will authorize.

Let me make that part of the statement clearer then...and fly as long as you want when authorized or when flying with the CFI along.

Both the wife and I trained in the plane we bought. We avoided 150 hrs of rental expense buying the plane first, then training to get licensed (we are both private pilots). We also avoided the hassle of trying to locate a rental for each lesson - a problem which arose quickly when we first started.

We are about to sell the plane (we are moving up the food chain) and will likely recover enough purchase price to more than pay for the rental cost we avoided while training.