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chavycha wrote:
From a safety perspective, extra airspeed on final can be a big problem. In the past couple years at my home strip, we've had a half dozen people run off the end of the runway (3,101x60'). The offenders have included a 172, a 150, a Cherokee 140, and a Beech 19. All of those airplanes have the capability to be down and stopped in a thousand feet if the correct speeds are flown.
And as an example of good speed control, here's a Cirrus SR22 pilot I flew with flying a lot like you do - and showing 3,100' runway should not be a problem:
SportPilot - I don't advocate chopping power on the downwind like in the video on each and every landing. It was practice in power-off 180s. It was more to illustrate the point that you can land the Skycatcher with a minimum of float and a minimum of power. I usually idle the power about 50' AGL on short final. There is certainly nothing wrong with carrying some power into the landing, as you pointed out. I do it sometimes when we have gusty winds, crosswinds, or am really trying to grease one on.
However, you'd said earlier that you usually flew final at more than the book speed. The book speeds that Cessna puts out for the 162 are already a little on the high side as I outlined above. If you're flying your finals at that airspeed, that means that you're crossing the threshold at 60-65 KIAS, right? That's a lot of speed to bleed off before touchdown. Unless I have been missing the lever for deploying spoilers and reversing thrust on the 162, I'm not sure how you're getting down to full stall landings without eating up a bunch of runway in a protracted float. I'm not trying to be an ass, honest, but the idea of being fast on final, carrying power, and yet not doing something else to slow the aircraft and burn off that additional 20+ knots of airspeed just doesn't compute.
Scott K. :: A bunch of silly letters
Disclaimer :: Listen to me at your own risk. These are just my opinions...
Ah, yeah, I think that's where we might be missing one another. If you're running a long final and starting at 65 KIAS, and slowly decreasing to, say, 50-55 KIAS over the threshold, I can see how you can get from A to B without deploying the thrust reversers.
Lemme see if I can find a video where I totally butcher an approach in the 162 and float forever. I'm too fast and high on short final and have to just suck it up and wait it out. Unfamiliar approach, poor planning, blah blah blah. It happens!
Scott K. :: A bunch of silly letters
Disclaimer :: Listen to me at your own risk. These are just my opinions...
chavycha wrote:
And as an example of good speed control, here's a Cirrus SR22 pilot I flew with flying a lot like you do - and showing 3,100' runway should not be a problem
Nicely done!
We have a Citation and a couple of King Airs based at the field in the video. Scares the crap out of me when I see the Citation coming in at 90 knots, but they always seem to get it stopped in time. They were doing touch-n-goes the other day. Now that was something!
Scott K. :: A bunch of silly letters
Disclaimer :: Listen to me at your own risk. These are just my opinions...
1. Oakridge Rwy 9 - How not to do it. First time I'd landed on this runway here. You come up a canyon and there's the airport. Poorly planned and set up, leads to a crap approach and a bad landing. Fast and high on final, have to wait for what feels like forever. https://youtu.be/LtgJXo_tV4A?t=118
2. Oakridge Rwy 27 - A tough bird because of the runway slope and sidestep required. Probably could trim it closer but I don't like hitting trees or dirt any more than the next guy... https://youtu.be/LtgJXo_tV4A?t=371
3. Cottage Grove Rwy 33 - a little more power carried into the landing because of potentially bumpy short final. Think this is with 25 degrees of flaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtgJXo_tV4A?t=512
2) That's some gorgeous territory you're flying in.
3) That stall warning horn sounds familiar! My Sky Arrow lists it's stall warning horn as a Cessna part # and I assume they raided the same parts bin for it!
4) If you ever make it to points east, stop by Copperhill, TN - I'd enjoy flying with you and showing you some of our local sights.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME [email protected]
2) Yes, I've had great instructors... I didn't learn in LSA but the fundamentals of flight don't change. Just takes a little more effort to keep the LSA pointed straight when it gets bumpy or gusty.
2B) The Northwest is indeed a gorgeous place to fly! Looks like the original poster is flying near here too. The only thing we don't get exposed to much is really busy airspace.
3) EeeeEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
4) Thanks for the invite! Last time I was out that way was a few years back and that part of the country has its own beauty. Always fun buzzing around a new place, and I learn something new every time I fly with someone. And likewise if you (or the OP) are ever down in Oregon. Lots of cool stuff within a half hour's flight of here.
Scott K. :: A bunch of silly letters
Disclaimer :: Listen to me at your own risk. These are just my opinions...
Still more good advice - Thanks! My CFI recommends a "little" power (1000-1200 rpm) on final approach to keep the 162 more controllable. It seems to wander considerably, especially in crosswind or turbulence. And just to clarify a previous statement regarding my power-off landing, conditions were near-perfect with a very light headwind and no turbulence. So he seized the opportunity for a lesson. Initial IAS was 70kt, but slowed considerably as I lifted the nose. Last time I looked at the ASI, it was dropping below 50, so I estimate the mains touched around 40kts.
The only thing I haven't seen is a reminder to pitch for the proper speed and use power to control your descent, which should have been covered by your instructor...and trim once you've established your desired airspeed.
It's a very basic skill, and I'm sure your instructor is constantly reminding you, but you may well be forgetting once you're in the pattern. If you're still experiencing some anxiety about getting in the plane in the first place, it may be causing you to forget something that's really kind of backwards when you're new to flying. I can easily see how once you've totally overcome your anxiety, your landings will suddenly get better since you're not devoting as much brain power with dealing with your anxiety.
(So says the low-time dude with less than 80 hours TT. )
I didn't realize this topic was still active. I'm past that original question now. I have come to learn that the process of landing is dynamic and requires evaluating several variables and applying the correct procedures at the appropriate time. My failing was believing it was to be done the same way for all conditions all the time. HA! What a mistake! But I do appreciate all the responses and advice. Hopefully some other wannabees can glean some wisdom from this thread also; I know I have.
HAPPYDAN wrote:I didn't realize this topic was still active. I'm past that original question now. I have come to learn that the process of landing is dynamic and requires evaluating several variables and applying the correct procedures at the appropriate time. My failing was believing it was to be done the same way for all conditions all the time. HA! What a mistake! But I do appreciate all the responses and advice. Hopefully some other wannabees can glean some wisdom from this thread also; I know I have.
P.S. I haven't wrecked the airplane yet!
Sounds like you have figured out what is, to me, the "key" : Every landing is different! As you said, it's dynamic and you have to constantly adjust to what is actually happening, instead of what you think *should* be happening.
Keep having fun!
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
All of those airplanes have the capability to be down and stopped in a thousand feet if the correct speeds are flown.
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