Landing the Cessna 162

[HAPPYDAN]

I'm not sure if my question belongs under this topic, but here goes. I have 8 hours total flight training so far, all in the 162. Up until Wednesday, I had two so-so landings under my belt. So we decided to go for touch and go.
I guess I hadn't noticed this before (too much anxiety?), but the LSA 162, with full flaps, in a 9kt headwind, seems to float forever once over the runway. Out of 6 landings, 2 were not good, 2 were rough, and 2 ballooned and (almost) stalled. Well, the best that can be said is I didn't wreck the plane and nobody got hurt.
I have read and reviewed information and videos online, but due to the anxiety, I honestly don't have much recollection of what I was doing (or not doing) during those final moments. Other people seem to agree that the 162 can be problematic to land, for whatever reasons.
What approach speed works best on final? On one landing, I had full flaps and pulled power to idle, and it just hung at 500ft. and 60 kt. Is that even possible? Nose down was the only way it would drop, picked up speed, crossed the numbers way too fast. Ballooned in the roundout. Added power, floated way down the runway, eased power back and dropped. Got lucky.
Next, I reasoned that, if I could see the end of the runway halfway up the windshield while sitting still, would flaring with the spinner level with the end of the runway be a sufficiently nose-up attitude to carry thru the flare to touchdown on the mains? My geometry tells me that should put the nose wheel about a foot off the pavement. Does that sound about right? On both ballooned attempts, I had pulled the nose up beyond that and both times headed for the moon. So am I correct in saying "In roundout, bring the spinner level with the horizon, hold, ease back the power, maintain directional control, mains touch, reduce to idle." Any comments will be appreciated!

[SportPilot]

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[3Dreaming]

I will defer to Sportpilot on Skycatcher specifics.

On final like he said the airplane will not hover, but if you catch a thermal it may not descend until your out of the thermal. The thermal can give the perspective that you described.

Ballooning on landing is caused by having excess lift for the pitch attitude. This can happen because of different factors. The first is a gust of wind. Not much you can do about that except react to the gust. Another happens because you increase the angle of attack to quickly during your round out.

Your instructor should be going over this with you during your post flight discussion.

[FastEddieB]

Can I ask where you are looking once in the flare?

Often landing problems can be traced to looking/fixating in the wrong place.

[Flocker]

The only time I use full flaps is for a short field landing. I also prefer to keep my speed up a little faster than book on final because I don't like wallowing around at a couple 100 feet off the ground.

I agree with this. 60 kts is ideal with 2 notchs. I never use full flaps unless it's a short or soft.

[Merlinspop]

Consider changing your mindset. When flaring to land, instead of fixating on landing, try to focus on flying. As long as you can keep it flying down the runway, inches above the pavement. Pretend it's the last flight you'll ever have.

[deltafox]

Start by working with a good CFI. I suspect (as previously mentioned) that your eyes are fixated at the wrong place. I like Rod's explanation: https://youtu.be/Rv5HEJCyTuk

[BrianL99]

I honestly don't have much recollection of what I was doing (or not doing) during those final moments.

Don't worry too much about that, most no one does. In the last few moments you're trying to get the airplane on the pavement, reasonably straight. It's more instinct than anything else and there's really not a lot of thinking going on. Many pilots will tell you differently, but I don't believe them.

I play golf with Jim Rice and we were talking about hitting one day. He said he heard Alex Rodriquez on the radio one day, talking about how he watched the bat hit the ball. Jimmy said that was baloney, he says everyone closes their eyes at impact. It's the same with landing an airplane, not that you close your eyes, but instinct takes over. If it doesn't, you can get yourself into trouble.

My Cirrus transition instructor taught me my landing mantra: "Don't let it fly, don't let it land".

[HAPPYDAN]

Thanks to all responders. I was hoping to get some feedback from low-time students like myself, regarding anxiety issues and some possible remedies. Then I found articles in Popular Mechanics, May and June 2015, "Learning to Fly". Excellent material. The author brilliantly articulates many of the same feelings I'm having - in control (or the lack thereof) of a $150K airplane, with 24 gallons of highly flammable 100LL, two souls on board, carousing around in the air above hundreds of homes with thousands of innocent people. Catch my drift? My CFI told me to think of it like a rabies vaccine. One shot (flying hour) at a time, gradually increasing the intensity, over a period of several weeks or even months, until you become immune to the debilitating effects. Focus on flying in the plane, not dying in the plane. Cool! So yesterday, we did it again, touch and go by the numbers. MUCH better. And to BrianL99 - I'm looking forward to that time that it becomes more instinct and less "by the numbers".

[SportPilot]

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[MrMorden]

I don't have any 162 time, but here's my take from my ~130hrs flying a CTSW:

Excessive float is almost always a result of excessive airspeed. I don't know about the 162, but in the CTSW my landings improved a *lot* when I started slowing down. You mentioned a 60kt approach speed, but what is the touchdown speed in the 162? I bet it's around 45kt, which means at some point you have to get that extra 15kt scrubbed out...if it hasn't happened by the roundout, the result will be either a long float or ballooning.

In the CTSW, at least for me, it's more often ballooning. I think because I'm a ham fist and the extra speed makes it very easy to over-rotate the airplane in the flare. I made this much less likely by slowing my approach speeds. My instructor taught 55-60kt on final, but I have found I have much better control at 52kt with 30° flaps, not to mention more time to correct and set up. On very short final (over the fence or threshold) in calm winds I will sometimes let the speed go as low as 48kt at solo weights. This has (for me) led to much smoother landings. I'm not advocating these speeds for a Skycatcher, since I've never flown one...just telling you what works for me in my airplane. It's something to consider or ask your instructor about.

One technique I read and took to heart was to not think about "flaring", but instead about "transitioning to slow flight". That way, instead of trying to do a continuous rotation to the ground, you are simply trying to arrest your descent just above the runway surface. Then you simply fly the airplane along until the lift runs out and the plane settles onto the pavement. With power off this will require ever-increasing pitch as you slow, and puts you in a perfect landing attitude.

Your balloon description is actually pretty classic, and the correction for it was correct. You have three options when ballooning:

1) Go around - if the balloon is severe or you are not sure, the best option.

2) Add power to cushion the big sink that occurs at the end of a balloon. Nothing wrong with this, I do it. But you have to be johnny-on-the-spot with the throttle, and if you add too much you will balloon again. If that happens, go around.

3) Continue the landing without adding power, leading to a drop-in "carrier-style" landing. From experience, this is the worst option. Tough on the airplane landing gear and your ego.

To steal a phrase from FastEddie, in landing you do "whatever it takes" to land the airplane. When you are first learning, that means following the landing configuration "recipes" that your instructor gives you for various situations. As you finish training and go out flying on your own, you will modify those recipes and maybe even come up with your own that better suit your flying style and your experience level. Eventually you get to the point of mixing up the elements of the various recipes "as needed" for unusual circumstances.

An example of that is my flight home from the North Georgia mountains with my wife on Saturday afternoon. Back at the home airport the wind was variable between 100° and 180° at 7 knots gusting to 14 knots. Two of my least favorite wind adjectives: "variable" and "gusty". I had never before actually landed the CTSW while both adjectives really applied. So I just flew the airplane.

I was fighting winds shifting from 30° crosswind from the left to 50° crosswind from the right (runway 13), plus the gusts. Right in the roundout we got picked up by a gust, then it stopped and we were sinking. Added a good amount of power to arrest the sink, and it turned into a nice landing. I was spring loaded for the go-around though.

The point is there is no "recipe" for shifting conditions like that, you just have to learn by doing. That is somewhat scary, but just remember that every competent pilot out there learned those skills the exact same way you are learning them now -- trial and error. The trick is to keep the "trial" part conservative enough that any "error" involved doesn't break the airplane or get anybody hurt.

As for the anxiety, it's normal and it gets better. It is not natural to get in a man-made contraption and zoom off thousands of feet above the ground. Flying is not a zero-risk activity, you know it and your body knows it. Repetition is the cure. I still get a little tickle of a butterfly before literally *every* flight, and I've come to expect and actually welcome it. It's not the enemy, it's your body's way of saying "this is important, pay attention".

[MrMorden]

And to prove you are not alone:

I was always afraid of dying. Always. It was my fear that made me learn everything I could about my airplane and my emergency equipment, and kept me flying respectful of my machine and always alert in the cockpit.
-- Chuck Yeager

There's no such thing as a natural-born pilot.
-- Chuck Yeager

Now, there are two ways of learning to ride a fractious horse: one is to get on him and learn by actual practice how each motion and trick may be best met; the other is to sit on a fence and watch the beast a while and then retire to the house and at leisure figure out the best way of overcoming his jumps and kicks. The latter system is the safer, but the former, on the whole, turns out the larger proportion of good riders. It is very much the same thing in learning to ride a flying machine.
-- Wilbur Wright

[SportPilot]

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[FastEddieB]

I never wish to have this appear as bragging, but to establish my credentials I do have about 4,500 hours of dual given.

Many of those hours were spent bouncing around the pattern in 150's and the like teaching primary students how to land. Much more was spent teaching tailwheel transition courses, transitioning pilots to new aircraft types, and troubleshooting various landing issues in a variety of planes.

My conclusion is that most landing difficulties stem from not looking in the right place. Rather than rehash, I'll again link to a pdf file of an article I wrote on the subject:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/229 ... tolook.pdf

And here's what the FAA has to say:



In any case, the actual task is fairly basic - round out and then keep the plane about 6"-12" over the runway for as long as possible. When a student can't do that, or is slow recognizing a balloon or the like, I immediately focus on where they are looking. Because if they are looking in the right place that part of the exercise is not all that hard. Of course, with runway alignment and crosswind correction all necessary at the same time, it can be overwhelming at times. To paraphrase "A League Of Their Own, "The hard is what makes it great!"

And, while I like the mental image of the stick always ratcheting back to maintain height, in the real world that can be impossible unless conditions are near perfect. Watch the jockeying of the stick here:

https://youtu.be/ricgcIz2SHI

Anyway, much of this is a rehash for those old timers here. But since there are always newcomers, some things bear repeating.

[HAPPYDAN]

Thanks again for the useful advice! Yesterday, we did it again - more T & G. It's getting better, I'm beginning to feel like I'm actually controlling the plane. And this may be worthy of note, Andy: On one approach, in full flaps, the CFI says "Pull the power all the way out". About 300 feet AGL, 60 kts, 800 yards from the runway. Yikes! Are you sure? This will simulate power failure on final. OK. Maintain 70 kts (glide speed), level the nose when I say, then keep the spinner on the horizon, and let the airspeed drop off. OK. Touched down as light as a feather, best landing yet. In near-perfect conditions. He says it's better to carry some power in for the times conditions may not be so favorable, which here in PNW is almost always!

Hey! Thanks again!

BTW, I shared the pattern with 2 WACO biplanes. What a gas, seeing those vintage barnstormers up in the air!