Rudder Pedals are backwards!

[jandras]

Maybe longer. I soloed at 16 and got a Private at 17, Commercial at 18, CFI at 19. I'm now 66.

Very cool! Here's to many more years of flying for the both of us.

[Jim Stewart]

These are airplanes, not sleds. There is nothing backwards or wrong about it. In 50+ years of flying, you are the first person I have every heard that thinks the rudder pedals are backwards.

Quite an astounding bit of insight.

Is it just possible that in your 50+ years of vast experience, you might have missed something?

[MovingOn]

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[MovingOn]

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[MrMorden]

I am confused by this confusion.

Am I missing something? You push right rudder, the nose swings right. You push left, the nose swings left. On the ground, you push left and the nose steers left and vice versa. What could be more intuitive? Especially on the ground, it's just like a car, turn the wheel left and the nose of the car goes left.

How is it different from the other two axes? right stick, plane rolls right, forward stick, the plane's nose pitches forward...

I'm not bashing anybody for finding things to not be intuitive, I'm just confused as to why it would be seen as confusing or inconsistent with the other axes. I think maybe people are just not used to doing any steering with their feet.

[CharlieTango]

Andy,

pitch and roll are rotations around the longitudinal and horizontal axis. The controls have a rotation as well and on these 2 axis they are in agreement

Right rudder pedal forward and left pedal back is a counter-clockwise rotation of the controls resulting in a clockwise rotation around the plane's vertical axis.

Plane's may be intuitive but this reversal does exist and it is not common to the sled, bike at speed, soap box derby car etc...

[3Dreaming]

Also shopping carts and zero turn mowers.

[jandras]

I am confused by this confusion.

Am I missing something? ... Especially on the ground, it's just like a car, turn the wheel left and the nose of the car goes left. ...

If you think about it a different way in the context of a car, you sort of push your left hand forward when turning that steering wheel clockwise to make the car turn to the right. This is especially apparent if you think of the motion in the context of a nearly horizontal steering wheel in a large truck. But, as is painfully obvious from this thread, it doesn't work that way when steering a plane with your feet. As another data point, the handlebars on a bicycle or motorcycle reinforce the notion of push left to turn right, and vice versa.

It may seem silly from the point of view of a more experienced aviator to transfer this notion to the rudder pedals, because we're talking about planes or whatever, but the constructive response is just to note that some have such a backward notion and help them kill it.

It's not a big deal to get past, but it's good to know that such a conflict may be lurking in the back of a student's mind, and it might surface when the student is under a mental load.

[FastEddieB]

As another data point, the handlebars on a bicycle or motorcycle reinforce the notion of push left to turn right, and vice versa.

To avoid the countersteering morass of two wheeled vehicles...

Think of my sidecar rig. Push on the right grip it goes left, and vice-versa. If it helps, think of me steering it with my feet!

If we're thinking of control pressure rotating the plane around each of its axes, then I'd expect right rudder pressure similarly to rotate the plane to the left.

But its good we have an apparent lull in accidents and tragedies that we can involve ourselves in such minutiae!

[drseti]

the handlebars on a bicycle or motorcycle reinforce the notion of push left to turn right, and vice versa.

Actually, if you take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's basic rider course (which I highly recommend to all bikers, even experienced ones), they stress counter-steering at speed. So, to turn right, you apply pressure to the right hand grip, and the bike leans right.

it's good to know that such a conflict may be lurking in the back of a student's mind, and it might surface when the student is under a mental load.

Absolutely! Flight instructors have to be sensitive not just to what the student is doing, but why he or she is doing it that way. Instead of saying something is wrong, we need to say "here's an alternate way of approaching this -- why don't you try it and see if it works for you?"

[Merlinspop]

Also shopping carts and zero turn mowers.

And Pre-M1 tanks and M2 APCs.

[deleted the part that revealed that I need more caffeine today]

[MrMorden]

Ah I see...if you look at it as a rotation of the controls instead of a push on individual controls, it is indeed "backward".

I'm glad I look at it the "right" way!

[drseti]

The best way to approach it is the way I was taught to fly helicopters. Do something, and see what happens. If you don't like the result, do the other thing.

[Merlinspop]

Ah I see...if you look at it as a rotation of the controls instead of a push on individual controls, it is indeed "backward".

I'm glad I look at it the "right" way!

Second time I landed a TW airplane, I had my feet backward. Very glad the instructor in back was spring loaded in the correct direction. My brain wanted to push the nose back to the centerline. I haven't mixed my feet up since, though, so maybe that hammered the right mindset in. "Go this way!" Of course, in the meantime, I bought a ZTR mower, so maybe I'm hosed for life.

[Jim Stewart]

These are airplanes, not sleds. There is nothing backwards or wrong about it. In 50+ years of flying, you are the first person I have every heard that thinks the rudder pedals are backwards.

Quite an astounding bit of insight.

Is it just possible that in your 50+ years of vast experience, you might have missed something?

I'm sure I missed plenty, but I've never heard anyone say or indicate they thought you pushed the left pedal to go right and vice versa. What is astounding about never having heard this issue before? I'm really getting tired of the bullshit from some of you guys.

"What is astounding about never having heard this issue before?"

Read the whole thread. Lots of people had problems with it. I had serious problems with it and it cost me about 40 more hours of training to get over it. The reason I had a strong negative reaction to your post was because of your dismissal of it as a trivial or non-existent problem. I respect your 50+ years of experience. OTOH, I can't accept your uncompromising opinion that your observations are right and nobody else's are. I think it's unfortunate that you are leaving, because I think you have contributions you can make here. Just be aware that there might be other sides of issues that you haven't seen.