Piper Sport - Help

[FrankR]

Need some help...

I'm checking out on a Piper Sport and I'm having some trouble. Three dual hours and I don't have it yet.

I'm having trouble holding attitude, altitude, and airspeed. I'm up and down like a (fill in your cliché here).

I am doing this training at Palomar, near San Diego. The sight picture over uneven terrain is a bit of a challenge.

I'm a low time pilot (<100 hrs); at a new airport; with a new airplane. I'm good with theory, regulations, and procedures. I just have a problem with Stick and Rudder.

My primary CFI, back in NC, with lots of hours, told me that he had similar problems with the Czech Sportstar (same plane, I think).

Thoughts and experience?

[CharlieTango]

Convective activity in the west makes light sport hard to maintain altitude. If this is part of the problem, try early morning.

Speed should be less of an issue, pitch trim should be the answer, trim and fly without pressure on the stick.

To maintain altitude scan frequently and adjust before the altitude changes much.

[MrMorden]

I have flown a SportCruiser, which is the same as the PiperSport. It is very sensitive, especially in pitch. The first thing I'd recommend is to check your grip on the stick; you really only need a couple of fingers on it. If you have a full grip or are white-knuckling it, it will lead you to over control things. Think in terms of pressures on the stick rather than actual movements, it takes very little to generate a change. If you are in cruise flight and can obviously see the stick moving in your hand, you are almost certainly over controlling.

Keep at it, you will get better. It's even harder with LSA to get it down, because the forces are so low.

[deltafox]

Be gentle. Treat her like a lady. .....and trim, trim, trim!

[Merlinspop]

Be gentle. Treat her like a lady. .....and trim, trim, trim!

Say you're having to hold a bit of back pressure. Instead of 'holding' the stick, extend out your fingers like a fence across the front of the stick. Then trim back until the stick just lifts off your fingers. If you need forward pressure, put the stick in the notch between your thumb and forefinger and just lift the stick off with trim. This is where I prefer a manual trim wheel to electric buttons. For me (at least) it's easier to make those minute adjustments with a wheel than by jabbing at a button.

[MrMorden]

Trim is vital, just make sure you don't end up "flying the trim", using the trim as a substitute for using the normal controls. Generally that's considered a bad habit, as the proper use for trim is to relieve control pressures, and not to actually fly the airplane.

[FrankR]

You guys are great.

I think I am definitely over-controlling.

[ct4me]

I understand the newer models have a mechanical damper on the elevator, to mellow out the elevator control.

[FastEddieB]

Be gentle. Treat her like a lady. .....and trim, trim, trim!

Agree 100% - that is the ultimate goal.

But...

...in my experience as an instructor, and before that as a ham-fisted student, I find the problem early on is more often UNDER-controlling.

IOW, you'll see a student's altitude varying 300' on either side of the desired altitude. You can see that he or she is attempting to make small, smooth corrections, but they never seem to be enough.

How does one get 300' high, let's say? First, by being 20' high and not adequately correcting. Then being 40' high and not adequately correcting. Then 60', 80', 100'...you get the idea.

I would rather see a student being a little more aggressive with the controls early on, so as to achieve accuracy first. I find it easier to add smoothness to a slightly rough accuracy than vice-versa. IOW, students who try to be too smooth early on tend to be all over the sky. I want to see firm, quick corrections.

Remember, one of the goals is performance to checkride standards. If the student is smooth but varies altitude by more than 100', they'll likely fail. OTOH, if they're a bit aggressive but keep well within the 100' allowed, they will most likely pass.

But it is all in the balance - the ultimate goal is accurate AND smooth.

Good luck - one day you will be both - and look back and wonder why it seemed so hard in the first place.

[deltafox]

Establish the wings level reference OUTSIDE the airplane. The glass panel is eye candy but the real reference should be the airplane's reference to the horizon. Cross checking the pink VSI bar is fine but only use it to confirm what you see outside.

[FastEddieB]

Establish the wings level reference OUTSIDE the airplane. The glass panel is eye candy but the real reference should be the airplane's reference to the horizon. Cross checking the pink VSI bar is fine but only use it to confirm what you see outside.

I used to occasionally make use of a towel, or a sectional chart.

Have the student find the pitch and bank attitude for S&L flight.

Then cover ALL the instruments and wait one minute, then uncover.

It was often uncanny how both the heading and altitude would remain unchanged, far more so than with the student "chasing" heading and altitude.

Slightly arguing against my own case presented above, but its all about balance.

[drseti]

I'm with Dave and Eddie (both fine instructors, BTW). When my students overcontrol, I just turn off the EFIS. Surprising how much better they do when they're not distracted by the screen!

Here's the think, Frank: if your 100 hours are in a Cherokee, or Skyhawk, or similar, you're used to ham-handed flying. This is because these planes have so much higher wing loading, and so much more inertia than the PiperSport/Sport Cruiser, that you can flap the yoke around all day and nothing much happens. So, they don't teach you how to feel what the airplane's doing. An LSA does. It's very responsive, and consequently harder to fly (which makes it a much better primary trainer, IMHO).

[drseti]

Three dual hours and I don't have it yet.

I find that most folks take five hours of dual to make the transition. So, hang in there another two hours, Frank, and you'll get it!

[designrs]

Frank you mention that the sight picture is a challenge. The PiperSport has a rather high glare shield. It's easy to drop the nose to "have a look" at something on the ground and loose altitude in the process. Then you have to pitch up to regain altitude thus obstructing your view even more. Sometimes it is better to drop a wing for a look. Perhaps this could be a contributing factor?

How tall are you Frank? I know plenty of average height people that need to sit on a booster seat in that plane. It takes some getting used to.

[drseti]

That's a very good point, Richard. I'm short, and have to sit on a cushion when I fly a PiperSport.