Cirrus as a primary trainer?

[drseti]

This from today's Flight School Business:

Cirrus Aircraft to partner with flight schools

In an effort to get greater exposure for the SR20, Cirrus Aircraft is partnering with flight schools in a new effort called JumpStart. Cirrus sees the SR20 as a good primary training platform, and, as part of the program, is working with its vendor network to place 12 SR20s around the country where access to the airplane has previously been unavailable. By putting the aircraft on the flight line, the school will get business support and financial incentives from Cirrus. The deal can also be structured as a typical leaseback, but with additional financial incentives from Cirrus that go beyond the tax benefits.

My question (mainly for Eddie, since he's a Cirrus instructor): just how suitable is the SR20 as a primary trainer? Seems to me it's instant information overload for a beginner.

[FastEddieB]

Well, it would not be my first choice.

I still think basics are best taught in a basic plane - the simpler the better to learn the art of flying.

But...

...I was called upon to help a fellow who had bought an SR22 and had been having trouble, having been moved from the Cirrus to a C172 for simplicity's sake, but felt "stuck" and disagreeing with his instructor over his ability to solo.

I always take student's opinions on their skill level with a grain of salt, but in this case he was right and I got him solo'd in his Cirrus in short order, with the Private following shortly thereafter.

Getting his certificate with George Argy, a S FL Examiner:



(My student on the right)

I went on to give him the instruction towards instrument as well.

And there are many "ab initio in a Cirrus" pilots on the Cirrus Owner's website who will tell you it is possible to do, and many of them are quite skilled pilots.

But again, it would not be my first choice.

[newamiga]

Just another observation. I don't know how many of you folks have seen videos that this gentleman put up, but he is an Irish pilot who did his initial training in a SR-22 and subsequently was in a unique position to buy a brand new SR-22. His videos are pretty cool to see someone who is very low hours flying to Las Vegas as well as several other very high traffic airports. You can see he is nervous in some of the flights, but he puts it all out there. This is a pretty interesting look aat someone who did their primary training in the platform and now flies and owns one.

http://www.youtube.com/user/N787EF?feature=watch

http://www.facebook.com/N787EF

I am trying to finish up my transition from sport pilot to private and when completed I am going to get checked out in our flying club's SR-20 and SR-22 for longer cross country flights with my wife. I guess I am less worried about the information overload as I learned in a glass cockpit aircraft and own a glass cockpit. I suspect it is all what you are used to. I think the only real trade is the price per hour. The difference in price per hour wet for the SR-20 is about $80/hr and the 22 is about $100/hr more. It is of course a trade as the LSA goes slower.

Carl

[Jack Tyler]

" I suspect it is all what you are used to."

I think Carl's spot on. IMO it's all about the structure of the curriculum and capability of the instructor with that curriculum. As a good friend with zero flight experience told me, when he first walked onto Whiting Field to begin his Navy flight training, "I walked up to the Mentor and thought it was going to eat me." But in bite-sized, digestible chunks, you'll find all the flight students there today getting their first flight training - now in the higher performance Texan turbo prop - some even while simultaneously trying to master their English language skills. Kudos to Eddie because how he approached the student in his story illustrates the importance of how the flight training is delivered.

Having said that, can we expect a direct correlation between a marketing & sales program promoted by Cirrus and the kind of curriculum and instructor abilities appropriate for ab initio training?

[Helen]

We had them at the first flight school I worked at. The students were constantly destroying the nose gear.

Also bear in mind that the parachute came about because the plane could not pass the spin test.

Helen

[MrMorden]

Also bear in mind that the parachute came about because the plane could not pass the spin test.

That is not correct. Cirrus simply chose to use a BRS as an alternate to going through the Part 23 spin regime. Not because the airplane could not pass the spin tests, but because it was considered less expensive to include the BRS (the part 23 spin testing is very expensive) and because it was considered that pilots would view the parachute as a valuable safety feature that would make the airplane more attractive.

Both SR-20s and SR-22s have been spun, and reports are that recovery is conventional and not particularly difficult.

As for training, if a Cirrus is all that a pilot flies from the beginning, I think it might engender an unrealistic sense of aircraft performance. If I were instructing the student I'd want them to get at least a few hours in a lower-performance airplane like a 172 (of better, 152), so they get a good idea of what a "typical" GA airplane's performance is. The Cirrus is *not* typical in many respects, and some basis for comparison would be valuable (and also help them appreciate the Cirrus' performance even more!).

[FastEddieB]

I meant to post something similar.

The Cirrus did pass spin tests in Europe.

Recovery has to be aggressive and sustained, but it will work.

With the chute in place Cirrus recommends that spin recovery be done via the chute, since pilots might continue to wrestle with spin recovery all the way down.

Like I did.

But fortunately, and enlighteningly, in a simulator.

[zaitcev]

USAF swapped out their D40s for SR22s in their Colorado academy a year or two ago. Maybe find out how they're doing?

There's a number of schools in the country using Cirruses for primary training. Mostly they are diploma mills for aspiring ATPs. The guy who landed Cirrus into a subdivision in Florida in 2011 was a Chinese primary student.

[FastEddieB]

USAF swapped out their D40s for SR22s in their Colorado academy a year or two ago. Maybe find out how they're doing?

Minor point: they were SR20's, the 200 hp version.

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/air-force ... 0-trainers

But very similar airframes, albeit with more limited performance, so your point stands.