"Stick and Rudder Moments"

[CharlieTango]

Birds can easily 'hover' in ridge lift because they can fly at slow speeds. In a glider, at higher speeds you will probably have positive ground speed.

Sure.

But a glider moving at 40k into a 40k "wind", and descending at 100 fpm in a 100 fpm updraft would appear to "hover".

Just an illusion caused by the air mass that it's in moving in two directions at once.

OK, you say sure but, however you agree not disagree.

The finer point ( laminar flow wind hitting beach dunes / ridge is likely an exception ) is to realize that positioning your glider to 'hover' while ridge soaring in a 40kt wind isn't very likely due to all the turbulence. Slow it down to bird or model speeds and 'hovering' is far more likely.

[FastEddieB]

We're probably on the same page.

I'm just alert to the mental image of the "wind" allowing the plane to "hover", which I think was suggested.

Absent thermals, a plane will descend at its normal descent rate regardless of the wind.

Descent "angle" may well be different, and if the headwind=TAS, the descent may well be vertical. But it will still be a descent, no matter how strong the wind is.

It will never "hover" in the absence of an updraft or thermal.

[MrMorden]

We had some high (for this area) winds the last couple of weeks. A CFI friend of mine took up his DA-20 and was about to get his ground speed down to 5kt at one point. Not quite a hover, but close.

[FastEddieB]

I've definitely "hovered" a Cub.

About 40k into a 40k wind.

Weird not seeing the ground move - at all!

[3Dreaming]

Not long ago I had a student doing slow flight, and the heading on the GPS for ground track was going crazy. I never did see zero ground speed, but I did se a ground track that was 180° off from our heading.

[drseti]

Good thing you never actually flew backwards!

Oh, many of us have. Ever been in a LongEZ?

[drseti]

As background, Stick and Rudder is a book written by Wolfgang Langewiesche in 1944.

I just watched (for maybe the third time) the 1995 film "Tuskegee Airmen." In an early scene, a future pilot, on a train enroute to Tuskegee Institute, is reading a copy of "Stick and Rudder." That scene took place in... 1941! (So, in addition to being expert flyers, the Tuskegee Airmen must have been time travelers.)

[MrMorden]

As background, Stick and Rudder is a book written by Wolfgang Langewiesche in 1944.

I just watched (for maybe the third time) the 1995 film "Tuskegee Airmen." In an early scene, a future pilot, on a train enroute to Tuskegee Institute, is reading a copy of "Stick and Rudder." That scene took place in... 1941! (So, in addition to being expert flyers, the Tuskegee Airmen must have been time travelers.)

It's true. They flew on Pterodactyls before they all got shot up and they had to switch to P-51s.

[FastEddieB]

Good thing you never actually flew backwards!

Oh, many of us have. Ever been in a LongEZ?

Nope. But I do understand the reference.

As an aside what happened to my original post that you quoted. It appears to be gone.

[FastEddieB]

As background, Stick and Rudder is a book written by Wolfgang Langewiesche in 1944.

I just watched (for maybe the third time) the 1995 film "Tuskegee Airmen." In an early scene, a future pilot, on a train enroute to Tuskegee Institute, is reading a copy of "Stick and Rudder." That scene took place in... 1941! (So, in addition to being expert flyers, the Tuskegee Airmen must have been time travelers.)

How many of the movie's watchers would have caught that? I'll bet the total number must be in the single digits!

Nice catch!

[drseti]

As an aside what happened to my original post that you quoted. It appears to be gone.

Oops... I inadvertantly hit the wrong key when I quoted it, and accidentally deleted the original. Feel free to repost.

[FastEddieB]

As an aside what happened to my original post that you quoted. It appears to be gone.

Oops... I inadvertantly hit the wrong key when I quoted it, and accidentally deleted the original. Feel free to repost.

Not necessary. My snarky, witty and baiting riposte lives on forever in your quote!

[designrs]

Here's a Stick and Rudder moment (and confessional) to share with you all,
along with a question.

Recently I've been landing on long runways at airports with multiple runways. So there is rarely a crosswind. Most are Class-D airports where approaches are not generally in pattern. Thus I've been tending to just "fly it on" a bit.

The other day I came in with a slight crosswind. The airplane just felt wrong trying to line it up on final. I'm trying to setup a crab into the wind, but it just felt WRONG. I was ready for a go around as I stabilized the approach (I really never had problems setting up stable approaches... hardly ever). Made it down OK, set it down OK (felt weird though), drifted off centerline a bit... almost as if I ran out of aileron or didn't use enough of it.

Problem was not trim.

Crosswind was only a few knots.

Out of crossind practice? By that much??

The feeling was kind of like an awkward slip.

Weird... again, just a couple of knots crosswind. Hardly a big deal.

... and the issue was?

CONGRATULATIONS! I just found out what my airplane feels like when it is unbalanced!!
One wing tank... right side, same side as the empty right seat... was run 5 gallons under the left wing.
I was aware of the condition, but did not think it would matter that much.
Good thing the issue wasn't compounded by other factors, like a big crosswind or an urgent go around.

Funny thing is, I'm surprised that it was even possible to get the plane that far out of balance, for something so small like that:

fuel was 30 pounds heavier on the left
I'm sitting left seat, right seat is empty.
15 pounds of stuff in the right wing locker (would counter other balance issues)
Nothing in the left wing locker.
Maybe 3 knots of crosswind from the right.

Is that enough to cause imbalance?