Sport first then Private

dstclair · Post by **dstclair** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:40 pm

I've found that the weather lately hasn't cooperated much so most of flying has been of the armchair variety and my mind has wandered a bit.

I used to be of the opinion that one had to have a valid 3rd class (or better) medical to attain their Private. That may have been the case before SP but FAR 61 seem to offer a different path now. The FARs are pretty clear that one needs a medical to exercise PP privileges and act as PIC but not to attain the certificate:

* First the obvious. A student can get their SP in an LSA without a medical
* Next the new SP can then get PP instruction from an appropriate CFI and do all solo in an LSA. They could not act as PIC for night flying but can receive instruction.
* Finally the SP can take their checkride in an LSA provided they never exercise privileges beyond SP (10K MSL/2.5K AGL, Night, without reference to the ground).
* They receive their PP but cannot exercise the privileges

So what's the point? Could come in handy for new pilots that don't want to go through the FAA medical process once (or if) the EAA/AOPA proposal or HR3708 passes.

3Dreaming · Post by **3Dreaming** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:46 pm

dstclair wrote:I've found that the weather lately hasn't cooperated much so most of flying has been of the armchair variety and my mind has wandered a bit.

I used to be of the opinion that one had to have a valid 3rd class (or better) medical to attain their Private. That may have been the case before SP but FAR 61 seem to offer a different path now. The FARs are pretty clear that one needs a medical to exercise PP privileges and act as PIC but not to attain the certificate:

* First the obvious. A student can get their SP in an LSA without a medical
* Next the new SP can then get PP instruction from an appropriate CFI and do all solo in an LSA. They could not act as PIC for night flying but can receive instruction.
* Finally the SP can take their checkride in an LSA provided they never exercise privileges beyond SP (10K MSL/2.5K AGL, Night, without reference to the ground).
* They receive their PP but cannot exercise the privileges

So what's the point? Could come in handy for new pilots that don't want to go through the FAA medical process once (or if) the EAA/AOPA proposal or HR3708 passes.

You are correct for most of your assessments, except for on detail. This is from CFR 61.23

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—
(vi) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate; or

I deleted the stuff in the middle.
Maybe things will change if the bill passes.

dstclair · Post by **dstclair** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:52 pm

When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate; or

Crap -- missed this one

rgstubbsjr · Post by **rgstubbsjr** » Fri May 16, 2014 5:49 pm

It's a shame I found this so late. Maybe my post can help someone in the future.

Absolutely, without question, get your Sport certificate first.
Here's why:
You don't need a medical. Save some money. You'll spend it later on the written exams.
When you fly, fly PPL requirements, not Sport requirements whenever possible. Do a PPL long distance cross country solo, not the shorter Sport solo. etc, etc. By doing this you can shortcut some of the requirements. Anything you do in a Light Sport can count towards your PPL.
Take your Sport checkride, get your license. Now you can go fly any time you want while working on your PPL.
You can fly any time, any place.
Think about this long and hard.
You
Can
Fly.
And all those hours count.
Unless you are married to a Stepford Wife, or have more money than even she knows what to do with, you are going to have to convince her there is a need to spend all this money on something so frivolous.
Flying her to Block Island for breakfast, or to Worchester to see the grand kids, or Cape Cod for the weekend, or whatever your local equivalent might be, makes a compelling argument to keep going.
Don't have a wife? Take your girlfriend (and if she doesn't like flying, dump her. Seriously. Better to find out before you sink everything into a PPL.) If she does like flying, well, ain't you about to get lucky!
You can take your PPL in a Light Sport aircraft. Really, you can. It's cheaper.

OK, get back to your studying.

MovingOn · Post by **MovingOn** » Fri May 16, 2014 7:35 pm

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drseti · Post by **drseti** » Fri May 16, 2014 7:54 pm

I've had a couple of students use SP as a portal of entry, even though their goal was clearly the PPL. Because of the way my curriculum is designed, this approach saved them quite a bit of money. It's a very effective stepping stone, if done correctly.

MovingOn · Post by **MovingOn** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:06 pm

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drseti · Post by **drseti** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:13 pm

Agreed! There is no "absolutely, without question" in flight instruction.

3Dreaming · Post by **3Dreaming** » Sat May 17, 2014 9:00 am

MovingOn wrote:This is a good option, but not a "definite" for everyone. If a student wants to learn to fly to put his wife and kids in a Cherokee 235 and go on vacation, I would not advise he fool around with LSA or Sport Pilot. Get your training in a certified aircraft and go straight for a Private. Everyone needs to evaluate the alternatives based on their own frame of reference.

Fool around with a LSA? An LSA can be used for private pilot training. I think in most cases someone who learns to fly in a LSA will develop better piloting skills than they would in most traditional GA aircraft. I know for a fact that the students who have learned to fly in my CT are better pilots than those who learned in my Warrior.
I do think that if the ultimate goal is to get the private you should go straight there, and save the $150 knowledge test and the $350 practical test.

MovingOn · Post by **MovingOn** » Sat May 17, 2014 10:23 am

.......

3Dreaming · Post by **3Dreaming** » Sat May 17, 2014 10:27 am

Just saying I don't consider learning to be a better pilot is fooling around.

MovingOn · Post by **MovingOn** » Sat May 17, 2014 10:35 am

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3Dreaming · Post by **3Dreaming** » Sat May 17, 2014 11:08 am

MovingOn wrote:
MovingOn wrote:This is a good option, but not a "definite" for everyone. If a student wants to learn to fly to put his wife and kids in a Cherokee 235 and go on vacation, I would not advise he fool around with LSA or Sport Pilot. Get your training in a certified aircraft and go straight for a Private. Everyone needs to evaluate the alternatives based on their own frame of reference.

Without calling names or running and hiding, can you give one good reason why a person who wants "to put his wife and kids in a Cherokee 235 and go on vacation" should not learn to fly in a LSA?

MovingOn · Post by **MovingOn** » Sat May 17, 2014 12:15 pm

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3Dreaming · Post by **3Dreaming** » Sat May 17, 2014 12:44 pm

MovingOn wrote:
3Dreaming wrote: Without calling names or running and hiding, can you give one good reason why a person who wants "to put his wife and kids in a Cherokee 235 and go on vacation" should not learn to fly in a LSA?
Learning in an LSA is a perfectly fine option, but it wouldn't be my advice if his goal was to get a Private and fly certified aircraft. There could be a number of reasons, but availability of aircraft would be one where I live. And, just so you know, I didn't "call any names." Look up the definition.

If an LSA was available would you still advise him not to fly it?

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