I think this has been discussed but I can't find it.
Is there any reason not to get Sport before Private?
What I am thinking of is friends who have started private lessons, maybe made it half way then lost out on time or money. They probably could have their Sport license today if that was the initial goal.
Sport first then Private
Moderator: drseti
Re: Sport first then Private
Delete...
Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sport first then Private
Since I started AvSport four years ago, all of my students start out as Sport Pilot candidates. 25% of the Sport Pilots I've graduated have now done the Private Pilot add-on, which is trivially inexpensive once they've gotten the SP. The rest seem content to fly as Sport Pilots, and all but one (who built his own ELSA) continue to rent the plane in which they trained.
The advantage of getting the SP enroute is that you're not as likely to get discouraged and drop out altogether. The completion rate for SP candidates is far better than it is for those going straight to the PP. In fact, all but one of my students who got as far as the first solo have gone on to get licensed (the one holdout went off to college in Scotland; I suspect he'll be back to finish up, after graduation).
The downside of doing SP first is that you have to pay for two FAA knowledge tests, and two checkrides. But considering that you can add PP with as little as six to ten more hours of dual, the cost is still quite attractive. And, if you can't go on for whatever reason, at least you're a licensed pilot!
The advantage of getting the SP enroute is that you're not as likely to get discouraged and drop out altogether. The completion rate for SP candidates is far better than it is for those going straight to the PP. In fact, all but one of my students who got as far as the first solo have gone on to get licensed (the one holdout went off to college in Scotland; I suspect he'll be back to finish up, after graduation).
The downside of doing SP first is that you have to pay for two FAA knowledge tests, and two checkrides. But considering that you can add PP with as little as six to ten more hours of dual, the cost is still quite attractive. And, if you can't go on for whatever reason, at least you're a licensed pilot!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Sport first then Private
Having just finished my Sport Pilot's Checkride recently, I can say that I would not look forward to taking another written or practical test anytime soon. The tests themselves went well, but they require tremendous preparation. There is just sooooo much information, and you have to study EVERYTHING. I felt like even if I had another three weeks to study I still would not have enough time to cram in all of that information. Then there's the whole weather / reschedule issue to contend with for the checkride.
My vote: go straight for the private pilot license as long as:
1) you plan to do it anyway
2) you don't mind a bit of extra training (not really THAT much more)
3) you're confident that there will be no issues about your medical
4) you don't mind flying certified aircraft (probably a Cessna)... or you have found other training aircraft available that you will enjoy flying
* Realize that if you train in a heavier aircraft, you WILL require significant transition training to be truly safe in a LSA. (Legally you could just jump in a LSA with your Private Pilot certificate, but that does not mean it is safe... and it's not!) LSA's require a much lighter touch and a buch of skills to develop feel to safely control the lighter aircraft.
** There is also a tremendous advantage to flying the aircraft that your trained in. As a new pilot you will not have a lot of experience, but at least you have SOME experience training in the exact aircraft that you will fly... so you become aware of many of the "issues" and quirks of that aircraft and motor. You will also have had experience in that aircraft in different weather conditions, so you know what to expect in terms of aircraft and pilot limits.
My vote: go straight for the private pilot license as long as:
1) you plan to do it anyway
2) you don't mind a bit of extra training (not really THAT much more)
3) you're confident that there will be no issues about your medical
4) you don't mind flying certified aircraft (probably a Cessna)... or you have found other training aircraft available that you will enjoy flying
* Realize that if you train in a heavier aircraft, you WILL require significant transition training to be truly safe in a LSA. (Legally you could just jump in a LSA with your Private Pilot certificate, but that does not mean it is safe... and it's not!) LSA's require a much lighter touch and a buch of skills to develop feel to safely control the lighter aircraft.
** There is also a tremendous advantage to flying the aircraft that your trained in. As a new pilot you will not have a lot of experience, but at least you have SOME experience training in the exact aircraft that you will fly... so you become aware of many of the "issues" and quirks of that aircraft and motor. You will also have had experience in that aircraft in different weather conditions, so you know what to expect in terms of aircraft and pilot limits.
- Richard
Sport Pilot / Ground Instructor
Previous Owner: 2011 SportCruiser
Sport Pilot / Ground Instructor
Previous Owner: 2011 SportCruiser
Re: Sport first then Private
A few more thoughts...
1) It's a big step from dual to solo.
2) It's another big step to keep your solo consistent (or at least try) relative to progress and set-backs. In other words, it's a ladder to climb and sometimes it's two steps up and one step down.
3) it's another big step to tune-up your skills to practical test standards.
4) It's a royal PITA to study for the exams! LOL
All four are "drop out" factors for both sport and private programs.
1) It's a big step from dual to solo.
2) It's another big step to keep your solo consistent (or at least try) relative to progress and set-backs. In other words, it's a ladder to climb and sometimes it's two steps up and one step down.
3) it's another big step to tune-up your skills to practical test standards.
4) It's a royal PITA to study for the exams! LOL
All four are "drop out" factors for both sport and private programs.
Re: Sport first then Private
I'm not sure that #4 has anything to do with going for the private. I have had Private students do all thier training in a light sport. There is no requirement that a private pilot must fly a type certified aircraft.designrs wrote:Having just finished my Sport Pilot's Checkride recently, I can say that I would not look forward to taking another written or practical test anytime soon. The tests themselves went well, but they require tremendous preparation. There is just sooooo much information, and you have to study EVERYTHING. I felt like even if I had another three weeks to study I still would not have enough time to cram in all of that information. Then there's the whole weather / reschedule issue to contend with for the checkride.
My vote: go straight for the private pilot license as long as:
1) you plan to do it anyway
2) you don't mind a bit of extra training (not really THAT much more)
3) you're confident that there will be no issues about your medical
4) you don't mind flying certified aircraft (probably a Cessna)... or you have found other training aircraft available that you will enjoy flying.
Re: Sport first then Private
I'm with Tom. One of my SP graduates went on for the Private, bought a share in a Cherokee Archer for when he wants to take the family somewhere, but still rents my SportStar when he wants to fly by himself for fun.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Sport first then Private
True. My bad! I know a few people that trained for their Private in the LSA as well.3Dreaming wrote:I'm not sure that #4 has anything to do with going for the private. I have had Private students do all thier training in a light sport. There is no requirement that a private pilot must fly a type certified aircraft.
I was thinking in generalities, as most Private Pilot instruction is in Cessna.
Someone would be very lucky to have a nice LSA nearby.
Re: Sport first then Private
To Richard's list of considerations for going straight to the PP, I would add:
You're in no particular hurry to carry a passenger.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Sport first then Private
Sport Pilot was not around when I got my ticket so take this for what it's worth. I'll also preface my opinion that a LSA is readily available in your area.
I would definitely get my SP first if I had it to do over again. It will get you flying faster, you get a sense of accomplishment (passing your checkride) sooner and you experience the freedom of flying quicker and for less $$$. You then are able to fly on your own with essentially the same privileges (other than aircraft type, night flighing, 10'000 ft limit and flying without reference to the ground). You may find this works well for you and you stop there. Or you may find, you want faster, bigger, etc. Or you may find that while flying is great, there are other things you prefer doing.
I personally didn't find the written tests daunting, nor my checkrides so having to do one extra of each would not factor into my decision.
YMMV.
I would definitely get my SP first if I had it to do over again. It will get you flying faster, you get a sense of accomplishment (passing your checkride) sooner and you experience the freedom of flying quicker and for less $$$. You then are able to fly on your own with essentially the same privileges (other than aircraft type, night flighing, 10'000 ft limit and flying without reference to the ground). You may find this works well for you and you stop there. Or you may find, you want faster, bigger, etc. Or you may find that while flying is great, there are other things you prefer doing.
I personally didn't find the written tests daunting, nor my checkrides so having to do one extra of each would not factor into my decision.
YMMV.
dave
Re: Sport first then Private
Delete...
Last edited by MovingOn on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sport first then Private
Allow me to draw an analogy from my previous life as a college professor.
Most graduate schools offer both Masters and Doctoral degrees. Even for someone going straight for the Doctorate, there is often the option of picking up a Masters enroute. I always encouraged my students to select this option, when available.
Rationale: it doesn't take any longer, additional cost is trivial (often no more than a $10 filing fee), and, should life interfere with completion, the student ends up with a piece of paper in hand, which enhances employability.
Disadvantage: the student may have to write a Masters Thesis in addition to a Doctoral Dissertation. This is in many ways analogous to the dual checkrides and written exams if a PP candidate goes for the SP rating first.
In my case, the Masters Thesis was a great dry run for the later Doctoral Dissertation, and I ended up being better prepared and more productive. The same may apply in the present case.
Most graduate schools offer both Masters and Doctoral degrees. Even for someone going straight for the Doctorate, there is often the option of picking up a Masters enroute. I always encouraged my students to select this option, when available.
Rationale: it doesn't take any longer, additional cost is trivial (often no more than a $10 filing fee), and, should life interfere with completion, the student ends up with a piece of paper in hand, which enhances employability.
Disadvantage: the student may have to write a Masters Thesis in addition to a Doctoral Dissertation. This is in many ways analogous to the dual checkrides and written exams if a PP candidate goes for the SP rating first.
In my case, the Masters Thesis was a great dry run for the later Doctoral Dissertation, and I ended up being better prepared and more productive. The same may apply in the present case.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
Re: Sport first then Private
Agree!drseti wrote: I ended up being better prepared and more productive. The same may apply in the present case.
Aviation Real Estate Broker
Re: Sport first then Private
Interesting point... go aggressive, get your Sport Pilot ASAP, enjoy being a licensed pilot as a "dry run" and practice for going back for more well prepaired. Might very well be the right option for some.Flocker wrote:Agree!drseti wrote: I ended up being better prepared and more productive. The same may apply in the present case.
Re: Sport first then Private
I would agree, I have not moved on to PP yet but have thought about it, and I do not think the PP check ride will be a hard thing now. I have a lot of time as PIC in a light sport airplane both solo and with a passenger. All this extra time has made me more confident, should I decide to go for my PP.