Interesting opportunity/dilemma

[Horatio]

Someone i know is selling his share in a C172. He lost his medical. Buy-in is $7500. Monthly fees (reported to be all-inclusive) are about $200, plus gas. Dont know much about the ac, except its an M-model and IFR certified. I would need to learn some more about the partnership, condition of the plane, etc., but it seems like a good deal. He says it's almost always available, but I don't know anything about the other partners' habits.

The biggest issue, were I to pursue this offer, is that I'd have to get a medical. I don't have any disqualifying conditions, I'd just rather avoid the process. Switching over to PPL training would not be that big of a hassle, though I'm not thrilled about the night flying requirement.

I would not consider this except for the fact that there are NO LSA rentals within reasonable driving distance of where I live, except the Champ in which I'm training. I just can't see using it for travel, which eventually I would like to do. My plan has been to purchase an affordable legacy LSA with better performance (i.e. Luscombe, etc.), or maybe a Sonex, at some point. That would presumably be more expensive than buying into a partnership, unless I could buy into a Luscombe! lol

Anyone else faced such an "opportunity"? If so, how did it resolve?

Thoughts and comments appreciated.

Horatio

[Merlinspop]

If you're sure the medical would be no problem, I'd recommend you seriously consider this opportunity.

Before I wrecked a motorcycle, I was in the best club imaginable. We had 2 continental powered 172s. There were 14 club members, but well over half were Air Guard and always gone. I never had any scheduling issues. Dues were $35 a month and the planes were $15/hour dry. A couple of the members were A&P/IAs. Was truly a sweet deal.

If you look into the this opportunity more deeply, ask if they have engine and avionics reserves and see how "fully funded" they are based on the TBO time on the engine. Look into the maintenance and all those other things that you normally wouldn't care too much about as a renter. Check to see if you entering as a student won't bump up the insurance the club pays, and if it does, if you would be expected to pay the entire increase (plus the amount of what you'd share if you were already a PP). Do they have a "club instructor" or would you be free to pick any instructor you want? Are they covered?

[FlyingForFun]

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[Jack Tyler]

Horatio, that is the scenario that ultimately led me to buy a Part 23 a/c and fly as a PP vs. build and fly a LSA - namely, first being clear about my mission before choosing my a/c. If cross-country flying is an important part of your flying goals, then ownership of an a/c will better suit you than renting. And the lack of locally available LSAs suitable for that mission just reaffirms that decision.

Heed the advice Bruce is giving you as those are good Q's. Also, the Partnership write-ups that are on the AOPA website can be very helpful, including the issues typically addressed in a partnership agreement. You don't mention how many shares exist. If that $7500 is for a 1/4th or 1/5th share, I can imagine there being little scheduling conflict as that has been my experience with a previous plane we put into partnership.

One caution: If pursuing the 172 and PP option, you might want to first schedule a consult with the AME, before you actually fill in the on-line form and begin the flight physical. Take the results (blood work, physician's write-up) of your last physical with you and let the AME review it. Explain you are there to learn if you might have any disqualifying conditions and let him ask the Q's he should know to ask. This is like buying an inexpensive insurance policy, assuring you ahead of time that seeking the medical certificate won't introduce a barrier to all your flying options.

Good luck. Let us know how this turns out.

[Horatio]

Horatio, that is the scenario that ultimately led me to buy a Part 23 a/c and fly as a PP vs. build and fly a LSA - namely, first being clear about my mission before choosing my a/c. If cross-country flying is an important part of your flying goals, then ownership of an a/c will better suit you than renting. And the lack of locally available LSAs suitable for that mission just reaffirms that decision.

Heed the advice Bruce is giving you as those are good Q's. Also, the Partnership write-ups that are on the AOPA website can be very helpful, including the issues typically addressed in a partnership agreement. You don't mention how many shares exist. If that $7500 is for a 1/4th or 1/5th share, I can imagine there being little scheduling conflict as that has been my experience with a previous plane we put into partnership.

One caution: If pursuing the 172 and PP option, you might want to first schedule a consult with the AME, before you actually fill in the on-line form and begin the flight physical. Take the results (blood work, physician's write-up) of your last physical with you and let the AME review it. Explain you are there to learn if you might have any disqualifying conditions and let him ask the Q's he should know to ask. This is like buying an inexpensive insurance policy, assuring you ahead of time that seeking the medical certificate won't introduce a barrier to all your flying options.

Good luck. Let us know how this turns out.

Thanks, everyone, for the tips so far.

It appears the airplane in question is owned by an LLC of seven partners. In addition to inspecting the a/c logs I would also want to see the partnership paperwork before reaching a decision. I'm sure the acquaintance would let me take a look. It would also make a difference if the monthly expenses do not include mx reserves.

There are several AMEs in the area, and one in particular has been recommended to me, but it's unclear how much latitude these AMEs have in reviewing medical history "off the record," especially since the FAA has begun requiring electronic forms. I'm also concerned about renewing the medical as time goes by. I'm not exactly a 'spring chicken' anymore.

My long-term goal is ownership, and there are quite a few LSA-eligible a/c that would meet my mission objectives, so if this does not come to pass it's no big deal. It may be a moot point anyway - someone else could make the buy-in before I'm ready.

[CTLSi]

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[Horatio]

Alhough I am not in the same bost, as it were, this link gets at why I'd rather not go the third class route:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=63963

[FlyingForFun]

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[Jack Tyler]

Horatio, there is nothing semi-sneaky or 'off the record' about seeking a consult with an AME. In fact, the POA thread illustrates why a consult makes sense. If the student pilot in question had first sat down with an AME for a consultation, early in her flight training, and the AME had a chance to collect info on meds taken, procedures performed, conditions being managed et al., the AME would have been in a position to advise her on where the sticking points might have been for her, or if she would be outright ineligible for a 3rd class if she applied, or she would be granted a 3rd class assuming the facts remained as they were. All of this takes place prior to one beginning the 8500 on-line form, so the AME being consulted is in no position to issue or challenge a 3rd class certificate because there is no 8500 to work from. If you feel this still seems to represent risk, you can even approach another AME when it's time to file the 8500 and have the exam.

Just to illustrate: Prior to my last 3rd class medical, I sought out a consult with an AME for two reasons. We'd just moved and I wanted to check him out and I had an emerging medical condition I wanted him to comment about (from an FAA perspective; I was already getting the 'real' medical advice from a specialist). As we discussed the condition, he felt he needed more info to give me an accurate analysis of how the FAA would view the condition, and he called one of the FAA AME's right then & there. (He could also have called one of the regional FAA AME's who take such calls. He just knew this fellow from a conference). The issue was clarified and so he could assure me that, if I were to return with the 8500 filed, it wouldn't be a problem.

If there are LSA-compliant (or for that matter, LSA) a/c that are available, you believe would fulfill your mission, if they fit your budget, and if you want to avoid the additional training in the PP curriculum, then your best long-term financial option is probably to buy one of those a/c sooner rather than later, stick with the SP curriculum and complete your training in your own a/c. This of course assumes you'll continue to fly regularly after you get your license. I would just add the caution to be sure the a/c you consider really will fit the cross-country mission(s) you have in mind. 75-80 mph sounds pretty fast when you compare it to your average speed driving to the airport. But in the real world, winds aloft will balance out across all flights as being slightly against you, smaller/lighter a/c can be lacking in comfort, non-spring chickens are not usually equipped with 3-4 hour bladders, and you may find a 200 NM leg (that's 230 statute miles or 3 hours at a sustained 80 mph) is almost more than you'll be able to enjoy. Faster/newer choices abound, of course...but they require a different budget.

[Horatio]

I've decided to pass on this opportunity. If anyone living near Columbia is interested, send me a PM.

Thanks for the responses.