Pretty sure I didn't just make up the 3 turns in both directions mandate.
Maybe it changed somewhere along the line?
And the FAA recommended endorsement also excludes that requirement:
46. Spin training: section 61.183(i)(1).
I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required training of section 61.183(i). I have determined that he/she is competent in instructional skills for training stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures.
/s/ [date] J. J. Jones 987654321CFI Exp. 12-31-05
I'm going to the hangar later and I'll check my endorsement from the late 1970's.
Spin Training.
Moderator: drseti
- FastEddieB
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- CharlieTango
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Re: Spin Training.
FastEddieB wrote:Interesting interpretation!
I always read, ... as to imply ... but one could parse the words to imply ...
That's funny Eddie, you are comparing your inference to me reading the words and making me sound Clintonian. I didn't have to read in order to infer I only had to read.
I don't think we should look for implication but simply look for the meaning of the FAR as written.
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Re: Spin Training.
http://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/ ... aining.pdfFastEddieB wrote:Interesting interpretation!...If there's nothing more current than that, I'll gladly yield to that interpretation.
This link is to a FAA doc on guidlines for all attitude training and it admits that parachutes are not required for spin training. Here the context is proficiency training and not training for a rating.
Re: Spin Training.
I wouldn't take that as a legal interpretation, since it says right at the top:
That said, personally I'd still want to be wearing a chute...
I would think the FAA Legal letter of interpretation would be more valuable. From what's been said here, I do believe spin training can be done without parachutes.The following is intended as a general guide only. The layout is similar to that of an Advisory Circular
That said, personally I'd still want to be wearing a chute...
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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- FastEddieB
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Re: Spin Training.
Well, it all depends on what the meaning of "any" is!CharlieTango wrote:
That's funny Eddie, you are comparing your inference to me reading the words and making me sound Clintonian.
I think its funny that few presidents get an "-ian" added to their names, and we know instinctively what is meant - Jeffersonian, Nixonian, Clintonian.
A hundred years from now I predict that that will be Clinton's legacy!
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Re: Spin Training.
OK, I knew I wasn't crazy...
Here's a pair of endorsements I got for my CFI rating:
Note they both specify both directions, and specify "3", with the second making it clearer that it was three "turns".
I KNOW that used to be required - it obviously changed for some reason.
Here's a pair of endorsements I got for my CFI rating:
Note they both specify both directions, and specify "3", with the second making it clearer that it was three "turns".
I KNOW that used to be required - it obviously changed for some reason.
Re: Spin Training.
Well, Eddie, I wouldn't go that far.FastEddieB wrote:OK, I knew I wasn't crazy...
Yes, that was my recollection too (but I'm not saying it makes me any less crazy...)I KNOW that used to be required .
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Prof H Paul Shuch
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- FastEddieB
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Re: Spin Training.
I knew, in my heart of hearts, I should have qualified my declaration.drseti wrote:Well, Eddie, I wouldn't go that far.FastEddieB wrote:OK, I knew I wasn't crazy...
But what are friends for?
Re: Spin Training.
Not to be outdone by Eddie, here's my (rather cursory) spin endorsement from January 1982:
Sure enough, three turns to the left, three to the right. There must have been some sort of requirement back then...
Sure enough, three turns to the left, three to the right. There must have been some sort of requirement back then...
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
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Prof H Paul Shuch
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Re: Spin Training.
If I remember correctly, three turns is part of the definition of a "fully developed spin" and less than that is still part of an incipient spin. It has to do with the airplane characteristics but I'd need to look it up to be sure of just what. I do recall that the Cessna Aerobat would go through an oscillation phase in the spin where it would tighten up and then relax and so on. I think Kirschner wrote about that.
Re: Spin Training.
Hey, Charlie Tango, I thought that was funny as hell. Either it slipped by you or you disagreed?jnmeade wrote:CT, should you go for upset training or go right on to anger management?CharlieTango wrote:Jim,
For some, like me upset training might be more important than spin training.
Re: Spin Training.
Actually, the guy most in need of anger management training is a completely different CT owner, who's no longer active on the forums.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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Prof H Paul Shuch
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AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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Re: Spin Training.
I was giving Charlie some good-nature ribbing because he is passionate about some subjects (but he's never displayed an ire to any of us that I know of.)
- CharlieTango
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Re: Spin Training.
Not bad, I was too busy sleeping to see it real time.jnmeade wrote:Hey, Charlie Tango, I thought that was funny as hell. Either it slipped by you or you disagreed?jnmeade wrote:CT, should you go for upset training or go right on to anger management?CharlieTango wrote:Jim,
For some, like me upset training might be more important than spin training.