Radio Calls .....UGH!

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kitcarguy
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:29 pm

Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by kitcarguy »

Hey Everyone,

I am in the middle of my training (non towered) and I have been met with a obstacle. Radio Calls! :) For whatever reason they make me really uncomfortable. I did some pattern work this morning with my instructor and was reluctantly doing them. About 45 minutes later we went up again and left for the practice area. He asked me to make a call, and I could not. Knew what I needed to say, just could not spit it out. No matter how many times he explained it I just could not. He proceeded to take the controls, and say he will fly and I make the calls. At that point I told him I could not do it and to just go ahead head back to the airport because I was done for the day.

We proceeded back with me saying pretty much nothing, and then I headed home. It has bothered me so much this afternoon, that I have pretty much decided in my head to go ahead and stop wasting their time, and my money on this. I know it is not a big deal for most, and it is something you just need to do, but it is not making it any easier for me.

Any advice?
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drseti
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by drseti »

kitcarguy wrote:Any advice?
You bet! First of all, don't let this intimidate you. Everybody hits this roadblock, we've all gotten past it, and not one of us is any more capable or intelligent than you.

Second, it helps if you understand the purpose of radio work. It's all about collision avoidance, so it's kind of a big deal. When you drive, what keeps you clear of other traffic is road design. You have pavement below you to reduce driving to a (mostly) two-dimensional problem. You have lane markings to tell you where to be, road signs to tell you where to go, and traffic lights to tell you when it's (allegedly) safe. And, all the other drivers have the same advantages, so keeping cars separated doesn't require talking to each other (or to a traffic controller) on the radio.

Not so simple when flying. The airspace is three-dimensional, the traffic lights never work, and the lane markings keep falling out of the sky. So, we depend upon communications to keep traffic separated. And, to make sure we all understand each other, we communicate in a secret language. Once you've learned that language, it all becomes intuitive.

It helps if you know in advance what things you're going to say, and in what order. It helps the other pilots anticipate and understand, if they know in advance what things you're going to say, and in what order. And, it helps you to understand other pilots if you know in advance that they're going to say those same things, in the same order.

Now, what are those things, and what is the standard order in which to say them? Let's break it down to a five-step recipe. Every radio call includes:

Who you're calling
Who you are
Where you are
What you're doing
What you want

And, since a given frequency is often shared by multiple airports, it's common practice to add that first item ( who you're calling) to the end of the transmission as well, so folks at your airport perk up their ears, and those at other airports can disregard.

Let's take those items one at a time.

Who you're calling, in the pattern at a non-towered airport, is other traffic at that airport. At KLHV, for example, we start with "Lock Haven traffic".

Who you are has been a topic much discussed recently in another thread. Some like to use make, model, and callsign, as in "Evektor SportStar November Six Six Alpha Victor." This is what ATC usually likes to hear at a towered airport. With no tower, safety is enhanced by telling others what you look like (for example, "red low wing") or how you perform (such as "light sport" or "experimental"). I don't favor using callsigns in a non-ATC environment, because it just clutters up the frequency and provides no useful information. Others here disagree, and it's been argued that the FARs or FCC regs require a callsign. I leave that debate for another thread.

Where you are is your location in the traffic pattern or practice area. "Holding short of 27 Right" is self-evident (and doesn't require you to state altitude, since you're probably on the ground). "left base for runway 9" also needs no explanation, and it implies you're at proper pattern altitude. If you're practicing stalls or steep turns, "in the practice area at 4000 feet" should be pretty clear.

What you're doing is sometimes implied by where you are, but if in doubt, add it. Example: "maneuvering," "pattern practice," "taking off 25" "landing 07", etc.

What you want gives a hint to the other pilot of what to expect from you next. Sometimes, what you're doing implies this, or makes it obvious. Other times, you have to be explicit, as in "departing the pattern straight out" or "descending to 2000 feet".

Finally, since we're sharing the frequency with several other nearby airports, your location again at the end ("Lock Haven") avoids confusion.

Try this: using the above recipe, practice flying the pattern in your head, and say every traffic call out loud - not in the plane, but at home in a comfy chair. Make calls holding short, rolling for takeoff, turning crosswind, turning downwind, turning base, turning final, on short final, and clear of the runway. Do it over and over again until it becomes automatic. Then, listen to pattern traffic on an aviation handheld, scanner, or ATC website, noticing if other pilots follow the same recipe (all should, and some actually do!). If they flub, you can learn from their mistakes instead of your own.

I have a PowerPoint lesson on my website that covers all of this, along with traffic pattern procedures. See http://avsport.org/pwrpoint/lesson03.pps. Hope this helps.

Most importantly, don't get discouraged!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
kitcarguy
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by kitcarguy »

Thanks for the advice and the power point. I will take a look at it. As far as not being discouraged, it is way to late for that. Sad but I am glad I did not have a lesson scheduled tomorrow because I most likely would have just cancelled it. It all has me really bummed.
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designrs
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by designrs »

If you know what to say, but are unable to say it, then it sounds like "stage fright". Some of the worlds best performers have had this. You will get over it. Start by writing down what you need to say on a card. Practice saying it at home, in the shower, while you are driving to the airport, etc. Let your instructor fly and read the damm card in the airplane if you have to!

Maybe get a handheld aviation radio, visit your local airport on a busy weekend day, and just listen. Eventually talking on the radio will become so normal that you will get sick of hearing yourself talk!

Funny story... I'm always very concered about traffic. On one of my early solo flights I was announcing my positions in the pattern with lots of due diligence. I landed at this really nice airport about and hour before sunset. I shut down the plane and got out for a walk on this beautiful sunset night. There was NO ONE around!!! Not in the sky. Not on the ground. It was so surreal, like something out of a Stephen King movie! And I'm thinking... ALL THIS TIME I was so worried about traffic, and the radio, and announcing my position. And there was NO ONE around. I was just talking to myself! :lol:

Whatever you do, keep flying!
Even if you delay the radio work... Keep flying!
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designrs
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by designrs »

kitcarguy wrote:As far as not being discouraged, it is way to late for that. Sad but I am glad I did not have a lesson scheduled tomorrow because I most likely would have just cancelled it.
Oh come on!! You can leave the earth, fly like a bird, watch your airspeed, and do steep turns and stalls. You can face your fears. You have the courage to fly! And what? That silly little radio isn't much different than your cel phone!

Have your instructor put you on 123.4 the "buddy frequency" the radio frequency for unofficial chit chat. Call "radio test... and make sounds like a monkey! Bark like a dog! Sing!!! :lol: Maybe it will help you get over it. The radio is just a silly little box compared to flying!

Just fly the airplane and do whatever else that you have to do.
kitcarguy
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by kitcarguy »

Thanks,

Made me laugh but still ended up cancelling flights for the rest of the week. I listen to Live ATC all the time, and live so close to an airport that I can watch planes on final all day from my dock.

Just a hangup that I do not think I will get over. From my old instructor to old timers I know they all says the same thing when it comes to radio calls. Just do them. Well if it was that easy for me I would not be having this discussion .

Thanks again everyone
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designrs
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by designrs »

Watch the movie The King's Speech!
True story of king Grorge VI who had a speech impediment and was terrified of the microphone. The story is about how he triumphed over it! The movie won multiple Oscars.
3Dreaming
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by 3Dreaming »

Your not the only one who has this fear. I have taught many people to fly, and most all of them have had problems talking on the radio in the begining. I think it should be taught from the very first lesson. Lessons are for you to learn not the instructor, he already knows how to talk on the radio.
I've been flying for over 30 years, and I still get cotton mouth when I have to talk to someone like at a towered airport. For me the joy of flying far outways the fear of talking on the radio.
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deltafox
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by deltafox »

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate...in that order. When you are ready to communicate pause BEFORE you push the talk button and relax. Think through what Paul told you then take a breath and speak, slowly. Remember, you're talking to friends.
Dave
Merlinspop
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by Merlinspop »

Kitcarguy -

A couple of suggestions...

1 - Make traffic calls all the time when you're driving (you'll probably want to do this alone). Say them out loud. Be completely stupid and spontaneous with them, but DO follow the order Paul gave... "you... me... where (I am)... what (I'm doing)... what (I want)"

Here's what I mean. Yes, it's stupid, but it gets you used to both the information contained in the call and actually spitting out the words in the right sequence:

"Home Depot traffic, Ford F150, Passing Arby's, Making right turn into parking for Air filters, Home Depot"
"Charles Town Tower, Ford F150, Over the River on RT 9, Inbound for Dinner with Information Delta"

I even make ATC calls back to me, like:
"F150, Charles Town Tower, report left turn into Neighborhood, You're number 2 behind ugly brown Chevy, report traffic in sight"
"Report left turn into neighborhood, #2 behind ugly chevy and he's in sight...F150"

I know... it really is stupid, but it does make forming the calls more natural and saying them out loud helps a lot more than just thinking them to yourself.

2 - buy a CB radio to get used to pushing a button and talking. Although the completely undisciplined nature of CB can also lead to bad habits.

2B - better yet, get your Ham radio license and use that. Still not as structured as aviation radio use, but it will make you comfortable communicating over a radio. Lots of fellow hams are also pilots and you can arrange to meet on an open freq and practice as if you were flying.

Most of all... KEEP AT IT!

Bruce
KD8KSX
- Bruce
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David
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by David »

Merlinspop wrote:
"Home Depot traffic, Ford F150, Passing Arby's, Making right turn into parking for Air filters, Home Depot"
"Charles Town Tower, Ford F150, Over the River on RT 9, Inbound for Dinner with Information Delta"
Bruce, I agree with all that you said but, be exact "Home Depot Aircraft Supply" - LOL

Kidding aside, kitcarguy don’t give up we all have had these types of blocks and you will work through it. The trick that Bruce suggested while driving works well! You can also practice the phonetic alphabet using license plates or street signs

Image

Romeo Victor Papa India Lima Oscar Tango

Image

Kitcarguy keep Practicing :)
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drseti
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by drseti »

Hey,.David, I really like that license plate!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
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dstclair
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by dstclair »

You might try the book Say Again, Please: Guide to Radio Communications

It pretty much covers any situation that might arise and gives sample communications . This may help remove the fear of the unknown. You could also make some note cards to keep in the plane which is what I did some 20+ years ago.
dave
newamiga
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by newamiga »

We had a guy a couple years ago who had a similar issue. His was at a towered airport but the same thing. He could fly the plane incredibly well. His only issue was when he keyed the mic his mind went blank. The Live ATC suggestion really helped him. I know that is easier said than done but I truly think it helps. I have a friend who also has minor issues with radio work and whenever he and I fly together (as I do all the time) we use flight following. I know you are working on just the pattern comms but once you get past that and you will and get your certificate, I highly recommend flight following. It is a safety thing primarily but it really helps your radio work as well.

Bottom line is don't give up.. you can do it!

Carl
Private Pilot and RV-12 Builder
kitcarguy
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Re: Radio Calls .....UGH!

Post by kitcarguy »

Thanks everyone. I listen to live ATC daily. I would say I am an above average student with a hangup that is enough to make me just hang it up unfortunately.
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