Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

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Jack Tyler
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by Jack Tyler »

Paul, congrats on the Jay decision...and I'll be keen to hear what you think both about the adaptation task upfront and the demand your school will experience.

Have you inquired of Redbird what kind of tracking or monitoring process they might be using to evaluate the effectiveness (learning, financial, etc.) of the Jay's use in flight school environments? Or how about AOPA? They seem to be working hard on a number of initiatives that relate to improving flight training. Are they measuring effectiveness of the Jay? (And then there's the Kind schools. Same Q's). You strike me as an ideal info source for any of these orgs re: measuring things like ease of use, student benefits, etc. The main reason I say this is your strong educational background and your tendency to think things through from concept to detail. Might produce some exposure or cred for your school, too.

For those interested in seeing a bit more on this, here's a short video that was produced after Sun 'n Fun. (Ah, and now we find out where Jeff VanWest has gone...). http://aopalive.aopa.org/?watch={923724 ... 64522A5E78}
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by drseti »

Yes, Jack, I've been very much in touch (multiple times) with both AOPA and Redbird, and they (and I) are keenly aware of, and concerned about, the tracking and validating issues you raise. Your questions go beyond what can be covered on the forums at this time, but do keep your eye on AOPA Pilot and Flight Training magazines over the next couple of months, for "the rest of the story."
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by Jack Tyler »

Glad to hear that, Paul. Not surprised, mind you. You don't seem to leave many stones unturned...
Jack
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by drseti »

This just posted to today's AOPA ePilot:
Training and Safety
Flight school forms simulator club
By Ian J. Twombly

Imagine having yearlong access to a flight school’s simulator for $120. That’s soon to be a reality for pilots near Lock Haven, Pa., thanks to a new club formed by local flight school AvSport.

The concept is simple. Users will pay one fee and get unlimited access to an AOPA Jay by Redbird for a year. Current AvSport students will have free access.

School owner Dr. Paul Shuch said students will use the Jay as part of his integrated sport pilot and private pilot upgrade curriculums. He envisions certificated pilot members will use the available scenarios as a form of self-guided learning. “Certificated pilots joining the simulator club will be given a catalog of available scenarios from which to select. They can fly those, or just go into free-flight mode, exploring and experimenting,” he said.

Shuch said he chose the Jay because of its price point, which at $2,490 falls between home systems and those approved by the FAA for currency. He was also drawn to the idea of scenarios, whether he creates them or they are already on the device.

“Without a published curriculum that tells the student what he or she will be doing in each lesson, what the completion standards are, and what homework will help the student to prepare for that lesson, they would find themselves just wandering around the sky burning avgas, helping the instructor to build hours toward his or her own airline career, maybe having fun, but making very little educational headway. Without scenarios, simulator training is just the same (except we're not burning avgas),” he said.

Shuch is currently accepting charter members that will have privileges through the end of 2014, as well as a few select lifetime members.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by drseti »

For those of you interested in following this adventure as it unfolds, I have a new, expanded simulator page now uploaded:

http://avsport.org/simulate

Feedback and comments are always welcome.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by rezaf_2000 »

To help myself get better in my flight training, I've set up a simulator at home. The system uses a pretty hefty PC (with nice realistic graphics), a large monitor, rudder pedals and flight stick (both from CH products), a throttle module from Saitek (TPM) to control the throttle, and another Saitek throttle quadrant that I use as the flaps and placed it next to my chair. I have both Microsoft FSX and X-Plane 10, and by far prefer the latter. My real-world training aircraft is an Evektor Sportstar, and in the X-plane simulator I use the Sportcruiser model. The panels are similar enough to not be a distraction, although the rate of climb seems to be unrealistically high. (A big thanks to Mr. Hamilton, whose website and this forum thread made me pull the plug to setup my own sim).

My observaions so far:

1. The feel of the stick and in particular the rudders are a bit different to the Evektor sportstar, so I focus on fine tuning my "feel of the controls" during the real-world flight lessons. I feel I was lucky that I started my real flight training before setting up the simulator, as it would have mis-trained my muscle memory.
2. I can practice the pattern, announcements on the radio, and landings and take offs to my heart's content on the simulator, and I believe it has helped me somewhat. X-Plane has a great (and pretty accurate) map coverage, and I have been re-practicing landings at all the different airports that my instructor took us to, and flying in between them.
3. The biggest issue I have at the moment is that in the real airplane I can look around from the windows and figure out my location based on the ground references (specially in the pattern, and during the turns and S-curves), but it's pretty cumbersome in the flight simulator. In the X-plane I can press Q, W and E keys to change the camera to side views, but it's just not the same. I guess I really have to setup at least one more monitor to show the left window, and perhaps another one to show the right one.
4. Another issue with the single monitor: Even though my monitor is large (27 inches) and high resolution, a huge amount of the screen is used up by the instrument panel. I haven't played around with resizing it yet, although I wouldn't be surprised if X-plane has a solution for that. (Any suggestions?)
5. I really like the ability of the sims to add winds and gusts, and practice crosswind landings on the sim. Ditto for engine failures.
6. I look forward to trying interactions with the ATC feature of X-Plane, as that's something I personally need to work a lot more hours on. But I bet I can get much better practicing interactions with the ATC in the simulator without paying for real flight hours. Also, the pioltedge.net system looks very very promising, I'll definitely give it a try soon.

Since the AOPA Jaybird simulator was mentioned here, I'd like to ask a few questions:
1. Do you have the same issue (looking out the left or right windows), given that the Jaybird seems to only have one monitor?
2. Do you find the instrument panel on the screen to be too large?
3. Is there any way to tune the controls feel more towards how LSA aircraft feel like? Or do you just let the students know that the real plane will feel different.
4. What is the most accurate / best overall airplane model that you use in your training facilities?
5. In general, how has your experience been with teaching for sport pilot license in simulators?
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by CTLSi »

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Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by drseti »

rezaf_2000 wrote: 1. Do you have the same issue (looking out the left or right windows), given that the Jaybird seems to only have one monitor?
The stock Jay does indeed have this issue. The solution is an aftermarket head tracker device called a TrackIR. It consists of an infrared camera which mounts to the top of the monitor, and a set of retro-reflectors worn on the bill of a baseball cap, that allows the camera to track your head position, along with software that moves your screen view as you move your head. That way, you can look up, down, right, and left, just as you would in the plane, and see where you want to see (with just a little practice).
2. Do you find the instrument panel on the screen to be too large?
Not so much with Lockheed Prepar3d, the simulator software used in the Jay. You can easily zoom your view in or out, using the + and - keys, until the instruments are just the size you want them. You can calibrate your TrackIR so you are looking out the windscreen when staring straight ahead, and when you move your head down slightly, you will be looking down at the instruments -- just as you do in the airplane. Or, with TrackIR, as you move your face closer to the screen, the view zooms in; moving your head back, the view zooms out, just like in real life.
3. Is there any way to tune the controls feel more towards how LSA aircraft feel like? Or do you just let the students know that the real plane will feel different.
The controls (rudder, yoke, throttle quadrant, and ignition switch) of the Jay are modeled after a Cessna 172, and do a good job of replicating the look and feel of that plane. Not much correlation there to an LSA, unfortunately, so the student has to learn the feel of the real plane in -- the real plane.
4. What is the most accurate / best overall airplane model that you use in your training facilities?
The Jay comes with about eight aircraft pre-programmed, and you can easily add dozens more. As mentioned above, the Skyhawk is very accurate and realistic -- the others less so. I'm using an excellent aftermarket model of the Evektor SportStar (my actual primary trainer), as well as a very good J3 Cub simulation model from A2A (absolutely necessary for me, this being Lock Haven...)
5. In general, how has your experience been with teaching for sport pilot license in simulators?
Well, for primary training specifically, it's no substitute for flying an airplane. But it does have its place in a flight training curriculum. Since I run on a strict academic schedule (two 3-hour lessons per week, scheduled rain or shine, no refunds, no exceptions), my students know that a lesson will never be cancelled. With the simulator, if the weather is not flyable, we'll fly it on the sim (and then, next lesson, in the airplane) so they don't lose continuity. Between lessons, they can come in and review/practice on the sim as much as they want. And, in the sim, they can try things that they're not allowed to do in the airplane (such as spins, or excessive crosswinds) without any fear of damage. So, it seems to improve the students' progress.

It's still no substitute for flying an airplane! :wink:
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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Re: Simulator training useful for Sport Pilots?

Post by drseti »

CTLSi wrote:So the short answer for a Sport Pilot training is, no. Don't bother.
And, the even shorter answer is: YMMV.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
[email protected]
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US
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