My week of flight training - Review of events

[Nomore767]

Few points from your really good self-critiques.

First one...we're all our biggest critics, especially pilots. Although its tough not to be so hard on yourself make sure you enjoy those moments when it all goes right too.

After your week of training go over it in your mind. Your CFI has introduced climbs , turns and descents coupled with stalls, and stall avoidance, and brought them all into play training in the pattern. All of those are involved in take-offs and landings. The airplane flies quite well it just needs a pilot to guide it.

As you progress you'll see more detail going into the same things your doing..eg. take-offs of short/soft runways, high runways, sloping runways...at higher temps and with different wind. You'll start to become an aviator not just a 'newbie' and we're all students of flight no matter how experienced we become.

Your CFI will gradually let you have more of the airplane and will encourage you to think about all things aviation whilst your still trying to fly the airplane.

Always try to fly the airplane well, stick your tongue into wind, and humbly accept compliments when you've earned them.

Lastly...don't forget to look like like a pilot...Ray-Bans, far distant stare, flight jacket and the ''Aw shucks attitude!

[Cluemeister]

Glad things are working out better.

If you want to head down to Copperhill, I'll bet an hour or so in the Sky Arrow will help you cement some of the things you've learned. Not as student/instructor, just as friends flying together!

Would love to come down again! I will let you know when I have a minute and we'll see if we can match schedules. Thanks again for being so generous with your time.

[Cluemeister]

Still not sure exactly when and how much to pull back the stick as the takeoff is happening.

I'm no CFI, but the best takeoffs are when the stick is positioned so that the plane will just fly itself off the runway when sufficient airspeed is achieved. Ask your instructor.

Hi Richard!

I agree with your comment. The instructor said let the plane fly off the runway. I did a bad job explaining.

Thanks for the feedback about enjoying the experience. I did more and more as the week went on.

[FastEddieB]

Greg,

Do it however your instructor wants it.

I like to "rotate" at the speed given in the POH, or not knowing that, start lifting the nose right about when the airspeed hits the bottom of the white arc.

Not a lot - just pull enough to lift the nosewheel into a shallow climb attitude.

Then and only then "let the plane fly off the runway". If you do it right you should be pretty close to Vy as the plane leaves the ground.

See what your POH describes for takeoff under "Normal Operations" and let us know. Just curious.

[Cluemeister]

Greg,

Do it however your instructor wants it.

I like to "rotate" at the speed given in the POH, or not knowing that, start lifting the nose right about when the airspeed hits the bottom of the white arc.

Not a lot - just pull enough to lift the nosewheel into a shallow climb attitude.

Then and only then "let the plane fly off the runway". If you do it right you should be pretty close to Vy as the plane leaves the ground.

See what your POH describes for takeoff under "Normal Operations" and let us know. Just curious.

Vr = 48
Vy = 68
Vx = 60

[HAPPYDAN]

Wow! Talk about flashbacks! You're right where I was last year. Same feelings, same frustrations, same mistakes. And then, there's that first, perfect, stabilized approach; on speed, centerline and glide slope; calm, professional radio announcements; roundout and flare; hold the nose up, mains touch lightly with a gentle chirp, and every cell in your body says, "Damn - I CAN do this!" Sounds like you're making great progress, much faster than I did. Good Luck and may the weather be with you.

[Cluemeister]

I missed your explanation for how you came to be training at Lockwood's and why you chose the 'concentrated days, but somewhat widely spaced weeks' approach. If you've addressed it earlier, perhaps you could point me in the right direction...or add your thoughts on that, if you haven't. Good luck to you on the next round!

Thanks for the kind words Jack. As to why Lockwood and why a week straight with gaps:

Jeff Hudson at Lockwood was highly recommended to me. He was described as a strong stick and rudder guy. That he is.

I liked the thought of Florida due to better weather chances. It may rain, but you'll probably get out the same day.

I liked the thought of a straight week because I wasn't sure if I was going to like it or not. I thought I would, but in the back of my mind I decided I needed to jump in instead of putting my toe in the water. If I jump, I'm definitely getting wet. The benefit of condensed and accelerated was very little time to lose learned tasks, and that turned out to be true.

The negative of this approach is now I'm a plane flight away from more lessons, making it more difficult to keep up without slipping back. I plan to go up with friends in the meantime, and I'm working on a plan to get back to Florida in successive weekends and possibly another solid week or two. I have a flexible schedule, so I believe I can make it work.

So the plan is to keep flying and keep learning. And now I can seriously search for a plane and hangar space!

[Cluemeister]

Lastly...don't forget to look like like a pilot...Ray-Bans, far distant stare, flight jacket and the ''Aw shucks attitude!

My wife bought me a pair of Maui Jim's prior to my pilot wishes being expressed. Not as cool as aviators, but they'll do!

[Nomore767]

They're cool...

...make sure (when asked 'are you a pilot?)....you can answer (as you slip those Maui Jims off).."why yes...yes I am!".

[Wm.Ince]

. . . "Lastly...don't forget to look like like a pilot...Ray-Bans, far distant stare, flight jacket and the ''Aw shucks attitude!" . . .

And don't forget the big wrist watch. As they say . . . the bigger . . the better!

[Cluemeister]

Wow! Talk about flashbacks! You're right where I was last year. Same feelings, same frustrations, same mistakes. And then, there's that first, perfect, stabilized approach; on speed, centerline and glide slope; calm, professional radio announcements; roundout and flare; hold the nose up, mains touch lightly with a gentle chirp, and every cell in your body says, "Damn - I CAN do this!" Sounds like you're making great progress, much faster than I did. Good Luck and may the weather be with you.

I'm glad it brought back memories for you, Dan. It is an amazing feeling to get it right.

As to the pace of my progress, I hope I didn't project that I was speedy. I didn't solo, we didn't do cross country training, etc. I highly doubt I was faster. It may seem that way because 6 days was condensed into 6 forum posts!

[drseti]

Still not sure exactly when and how much to pull back the stick as the takeoff is happening.

I don't want to contradict anything that Jeff is telling you, but just to make you aware that there are different techniques available to the pilot. The "when and how much to pull back" problem is a common one. I use a different technique with my students, which you might ask Jeff about (and maybe ask him to demonstrate, if he's comfortable with it). Instead of pulling the plane off the ground, I have my students position the stick when pulling on to the runway, to the position that will give normal climb-out attitude (you have to learn this position in advance). Then, don't move the elevator at all during the takeoff roll -- the plane will fly itself off the ground when it's ready. If the plane is properly trimmed, once airborne you will be able to let go of the stick, and the plane will continue its climb at the desired airspeed (typically 60 kts in most LSAs -- which conveniently just happens to be best glide speed, should an engine failure occur).

[FastEddieB]

Here's the FAA take from the Airplane Flying Handbook, p. 5-3:

When all the flight controls become effective during the takeoff roll in a nosewheel-type airplane, back-elevator pressure should be gradually applied to raise the nosewheel slightly off the runway, thus establishing the takeoff or lift-off attitude. This is often referred to as “rotating.” At this point, the position of the nose in relation to the horizon should be noted, then back-elevator pressure applied as necessary to hold this attitude. The wings must be kept level by applying aileron pressure as necessary.

The airplane is allowed to fly off the ground while in the normal takeoff attitude. Forcing it into the air by applying excessive back-elevator pressure would only result in an excessively high pitch attitude and may delay the takeoff. As discussed earlier, excessive and rapid changes in pitch attitude result in proportionate changes in the effects of torque, thus making the airplane more difficult to control.

...

Upon lift-off, the airplane should be flying at approximately the pitch attitude that will allow it to accelerate to VY. This is the speed at which the airplane will gain the most altitude in the shortest period of time.


Fairly consistent with my advice and Prof. Shuch's above. I think both of us are pretty much "by the book" types.

[MrMorden]

I could not have been more wrong. At take off, not enough right rudder. Over and over again. Not getting the wheel off the ground. Over and over again. Up in the pattern was messy. base to final was just awful. Landings were just atrocious, and I was unable to get it. Always behind the aircraft.

HA, sounds familiar!

As you know, I also trained with Jeff. In my unsettled dreams I can still hear his voice taunting me:

"Right rudder. Right rudder. MORE RIGHT RUDDER!"

"Why are you flying with the ball out?"

It's perfectly normal. It might seem hard an unnatural, but remember: YOU HAVE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. Flying is one of the most demanding exercises in awareness and coordination that any human being undertakes. Driving pales in comparison, because flying is in all three dimensions. plus you have to unlearn things that seem natural (what, steer on the ground with my feet, and brake with my hand?!?")

Just keep working at it. Nothing worth doing comes easy!

[MrMorden]

As to the "how much back pressure"...

The speed I use in my CT when solo is 45 knots. When I have two people in it I use 50kt, so it looks like the P-92 you are in is right at the same numbers at 48kt with two people.

I set neutral trim at 15° flaps, roll out on the runway, and smoothly go to full power (right rudder! ). I then confirm on the tach that I'm making full power (5050-5100rpm in my CT). Then by the time I get my eyes focused back on the airspeed, I'm at about 40kt. When I hit the 45kt/50kt speed, I just slowly and smoothly pull back on the stick. Not much, just an inch or so per second.

The airplane will almost immediately start climbing. Once I have a positive rate of climb, I hold it there and let the airspeed come up. Once the speed is up to around 60kts I then re-pitch the plane to maintain that speed. Then just let it climb and keep fiddling the pitch to hold the speed. Usually around 500 feet I will lower the nose a bit to let the plane accelerate to 65kt and then raise the flaps to 0°...the airplane accelerates to 70kt very quickly and then if I'm leaving the pattern I go to -6 flaps in the CT. If I'm staying in the pattern I will stay at 0 flaps, otherwise I'll be doing 90+ knots on downwind.

That's a long explanation to say "at neutral trim and proper rotation speed, it should not take much back pressure".