Non light sport aircraft.

Sport aviation is growing rapidly. But the new sport pilot / light-sport aircraft rules are still a mystery to many flight schools and instructors. To locate a flight school offering sport pilot training and/or light-sport aircraft rentals, click on the "Flight School And Rental Finder" tab above. This is a great place to share ideas on learning to fly, flight schools, costs and anything else related to training.

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3Dreaming
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:19 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Of course, until/unless something changes a Cessna 150/152, Piper Cherokee, and Beech Musketeer all required a Private certificate or higher.


CFR part 61 sub part D

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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:59 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Of course, until/unless something changes a Cessna 150/152, Piper Cherokee, and Beech Musketeer all required a Private certificate or higher.


CFR part 61 sub part D

Which I would argue is not worth the paper it's printed on. Go ahead and get a Private. YRMV. I think most of us discount it. The FAA should probably eliminate it IMHO.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:02 pm

wdc@q.com wrote:I am working on getting my private pilot but toying with sport pilot ideas.

Dalton

This person did not ask about Recreation Pilot certificate. Why didn't you suggest it to him?
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby drseti » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 pm

TimTaylor wrote:This person did not ask about Recreation Pilot certificate. Why didn't you suggest it to him?


I think that's a significant observation. It has (sadly) become an orphan rating. I was at an Examiner's meeting at my FSDO on Thursday, and was surprised to observe that not one single DPE in my district offers Rec Pilot checkrides. That's right, all our examiners skip over it. We have DPEs whose Letters of Authorization specifically list Sport, Private, Commercial, ATP, Multi, and Instrument, but explicitly omit Rec. So, if someone in EA-13 actually wanted to get a Rec, he or she would apparently be out of luck.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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TimTaylor
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:13 pm

Seems to me that if you can give a Private ride, you should be able to give a Recreational Pilot ride.
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:19 pm

Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby drseti » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:39 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Seems to me that if you can give a Private ride, you should be able to give a Recreational Pilot ride.


Just because the DPE has the skills and knowledge to give a Rec Pilot practical exam doesn't mean he or she can, unless (a) the examiner requests that privilege, and (b) the relevant FSDO chooses to extend that privilege in the DPE's Certificate of Authority. In my district, they haven't done so for anyone. Probably that's because, to add a rating to your DPE, your Principal Inspector has to observe you giving a practical for that specific rating. So, if there aren't ever any Rec Pilot applicants, there can't be an observation, and hence there can't be a Rec Pilot Examiner.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

TimTaylor
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:45 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Seems to me that if you can give a Private ride, you should be able to give a Recreational Pilot ride.


I'm just saying it seems they SHOULD be able to, not they ARE able to. After all, A Recreation Pilot is same as Private minus some stuff. At least, I think it is.
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby drseti » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:53 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I'm just saying it seems they SHOULD be able to, not they ARE able to. After all, A Recreation Pilot is same as Private minus some stuff. At least, I think it is.


Yes, that's clear. Similarly, a PPT examiner should be able to give SP checkrides. Most don't, because:

(1) most DPEs (and CFIs, for that matter) don't know the SP rules, privileges, and limitations. They're still the best kept secret in aviation.

(2) most of the DPEs I know can't get into an LSA without overgrossing it.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

TimTaylor
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:02 pm

And, an LSA is a somewhat different animal.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:14 am

TimTaylor wrote:
wdc@q.com wrote:I am working on getting my private pilot but toying with sport pilot ideas.

Dalton

This person did not ask about Recreation Pilot certificate. Why didn't you suggest it to him?


He didn't ask about an instrument rating either, but yet you suggested it on the first page. :roll:

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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:17 am

drseti wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:Seems to me that if you can give a Private ride, you should be able to give a Recreational Pilot ride.


Just because the DPE has the skills and knowledge to give a Rec Pilot practical exam doesn't mean he or she can, unless (a) the examiner requests that privilege, and (b) the relevant FSDO chooses to extend that privilege in the DPE's Certificate of Authority. In my district, they haven't done so for anyone. Probably that's because, to add a rating to your DPE, your Principal Inspector has to observe you giving a practical for that specific rating. So, if there aren't ever any Rec Pilot applicants, there can't be an observation, and hence there can't be a Rec Pilot Examiner.


By that same logic there would be no Sport Pilot examiners, glider examiners, or type specific examiners like for a Robinson R-22.

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drseti
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Re: Non light sport aircraft.

Postby drseti » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:09 am

3Dreaming wrote:By that same logic there would be no Sport Pilot examiners, glider examiners, or type specific examiners like for a Robinson R-22.


And, in fact, there are very few of each. Read my rather long thread on the ongoing shortage of Sport Pilot examiners.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US


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