Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Are you building/buying/flying an Experimental Amateur-Built (E-AB) or Experimental Light Sport (E-LSA) aircraft? Converting an S-LSA to E-LSA? Changing or adding equipment, or otherwise modifying an S-LSA? Need help with Letters of Authorization? Or maybe designing your own aircraft? This forum is the place to discuss All Things Experimental.

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David
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Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby David » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:18 pm

During my build the deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to an EAB and why

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Many on the forum can chime in the pros and cons to an EAB verses an ELSA. When I decided to build the RV12 my path was decided by Vans since I was going to use my ROTAX from another SLSA with less than 100 hours on it. I sold the frame and keep the avionics and ROTAX. Since I was not buying everything from VANs I was automatically forced to be an EAB. Building was followed for the main structure and the overall build. I follow the plans as provide by VANs for 95+%, where I deviated from the E-LSA are listed below and were done for the following enhancements, changes, and cosmetics.
My ROTAX had an external alternator so the cooling shroud , the cowling, and plumbing had to be modified. The cowling had to grow about an inch or two and reshape for the changes. But of room and additional 40 amps for the avionics

I chose to use Vertical Power for my electrical wiring and fuse system. So the electrical plans provided by VANs were worthless.

The Avionics were different since I upgraded from my older SLSA. Grand Rapids provide me a a great price to upgrade and used their autopilot and servos. The RV comes with Dynon and a junction box for all avionics; which is very good for the 12, but since I already had the equipment it was a no brainer, save the money.

I added an indicator for flaps which is not an option on the 12

A mechanical sight fuel gauge for the tank

I modified the rear bulkhead panel to allow for easy access without removing the tank. This allows for access for inspections

I chose to use a 3 blade prop – only rationale I think it looks good

I added a door in the radiator plenum and adjustable oil cooler shutter both are in-flight adjustable to help with the cooler temperatures in PA

Wheel pants are an option, but I added fairings for the upper and lower areas along with fiberglass fairings for the gear legs

Pure Cosmetics, Fiberglass horizontal stabilizer tips and Vertical stabilizer empennage fitting

A link to photos for the modifications on my website https://www.dropbox.com/sh/h2ugegywc14a0x9/oB7oqbLjnW

Pros to the EAB
I have the repairman certificate
Make changes as needed
Saved substantial $’s since I already had parts

Cons
Resale
The next owner will need an A&P to work on or sign off for conditionals or repair
I had a 40 hour phase I fly off verses the ELSA of 5 hours (no big deal fly was fun for the 40)

I am sure there are more regarding the Pros and Cons - comments
David
EAA 1434 Belfast ME
RV12 EAB - Maiden flight 8/30/12
David's RV12 http://www.rv12pilot.com

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drseti
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Re: Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby drseti » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:35 pm

Thanks for posting that, David. Clearly, the decisions that were obvious for you might be irrelevant for others.
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Jack Tyler
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Re: Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby Jack Tyler » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:30 am

Under the Cons, you mention:
"The next owner will need an A&P to work on or sign off for conditionals or repair"

That's true for the Annual Condition Inspection but I believe the next owner is eligible to repair/modify/replace an E-AB as s/he sees fit.
Similarly, under 'Pros' you could list the fact that any RV-12 E-AB builder has a much wider choice of components, something that will increase in benefit and value over time as new avionics and systems are introduced while VANS will probably not endure the pain of redesigning their E-LSA RV-12 kit for some time. Of course, the Con for this Pro is that the builder must become somewhat of an a/c designer and engineer...and eventually, test pilot.

Congratulations on your build. Love those legs (err...your plane's legs)!
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

Merlinspop
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Re: Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby Merlinspop » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:47 am

Jack Tyler wrote:Similarly, under 'Pros' you could list the fact that any RV-12 E-AB builder has a much wider choice of components, something that will increase in benefit and value over time as new avionics and systems are introduced while VANS will probably not endure the pain of redesigning their E-LSA RV-12 kit for some time. Of course, the Con for this Pro is that the builder must become somewhat of an a/c designer and engineer...and eventually, test pilot.

My understanding is that an E-LSA has to exactly conform to the manufacturer's S-LSA when it is certified. From that moment forward, the owner can do anything he or she wants to the airplane, so long as it stays within the parameters of an LSA. Obviously, there are practical implications to this. Who would want to (or afford to) build and certify an airplane with a specific engine and avionics set, then start ripping out these expensive bits to put in what they wanted all along? On the other hand, a person buying an E-LSA with an engine near TBO or dated avionics is free to upgrade and change things as they see fit.
- Bruce

Jack Tyler
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Re: Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby Jack Tyler » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:12 am

"My understanding is that an E-LSA has to exactly conform to the manufacturer's S-LSA when it is certified. From that moment forward, the owner can do anything he or she wants to the airplane, so long as it stays within the parameters of an LSA."

That's my understanding, as well.

"Who would want to (or afford to) build and certify an airplane with a specific engine and avionics set, then start ripping out these expensive bits to put in what they wanted all along?"

It isn't so much about 'ripping out' what the kit builder (e.g. Vans) provided but rather adding or modifying something not originally part of the kit. A simple RV-12 example is modifying the fuel tank by adding a fuel gauge in the top of the tank. This is a very common mod for RV-12 builders as they don't find the sight glass sufficient. Vans didn't think that was necessary...but once certified, an RV-12 builder is free to add that fuel gauge, or wheel pants of his/her own design, or multiple 12V power points, and so on.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

Nomore767
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Re: Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:22 pm

"It isn't so much about 'ripping out' what the kit builder (e.g. Vans) provided but rather adding or modifying something not originally part of the kit. A simple RV-12 example is modifying the fuel tank by adding a fuel gauge in the top of the tank. This is a very common mod for RV-12 builders as they don't find the sight glass sufficient. Vans didn't think that was necessary...but once certified, an RV-12 builder is free to add that fuel gauge, or wheel pants of his/her own design, or multiple 12V power points, and so on."

Actually, it appears that Vans is now shipping kits with the fuel gauge on the top of the tank and the old site glass metal plate isn't used and is sealed.

Just as an FYI and your other points all well taken!

Cheers, Howard.

Jack Tyler
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Re: Deviations from a RV12 E-LSA to a RV12

Postby Jack Tyler » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:45 am

Well, there you go. Amateur kit building goes full circle and an a/c design is improved. Wouldn't it be great if that were true for Part 23 a/c sans the expense and review lag time of even small improvements. Thanks for the update, Howard.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org


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