Responsibilities of Ground Control

Jason spent 24 years as an air traffic controller at Los Angeles Center, and recently moved east to work in DC in the Airspace office as an air traffic subject matter expert. He is a Sport Pilot, owns a Rans S12XL E-LSA, and got his >87 knot endorsement so he can rent a C162. He's here to answer your questions about ATC procedures and rules, in a strictly unofficial capacity.

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Wm.Ince
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby Wm.Ince » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:41 pm

TimTaylor wrote:In my many years of flying I have never experienced or had reason to believe a ground controller was any less responsible than a tower controller or any other ATC professional.

Outside of honest mistakes, that has also been my experience.
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Jim Hardin
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby Jim Hardin » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:06 pm

OK, let's try it this way...

It all started with the Tenerife disaster. Now that one had little or nothing to do with ground control. However, since then the FAA has gone out of thier way to "educate" pilots about runway incursions backed up by punishment incentives.

So here we are 40 years later and incursions still occur at about the same number every year. From that I conclude that the FAA's Solution has been about as effective as facing into the wind while trying to relive oneself.

So do we continue to pound pilots into the ground or do we pull our head out the box and look elsewhere? In most companies a failed solution as well as the author of it would be standing at the curb with their belongings, and a lot sooner than 40 years :P

What else can be done?

In the 70's at Bowman Field, KY they used colored lines to help locate the taxiways. Taxi to Rwy 33 via Hotel, Juliet and Echo, following the red marking line. (color vision a must)

Ground Surveillance Radar - I have been give taxi headings in some places until established on the taxiway.

ADS-B seems to hold a possibility. Couple that with an automated computer ground controller...

But in all cases SOMEONE has to be looking at it. So why not have the Ground Controller tasked to look out the window until something better comes along? Again, 'workload' is an excuse not an answer.

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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby drseti » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:55 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I disagree with your premise.


Don't leave us hanging, Tim; please elaborate.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:38 pm

Jim Hardin wrote:A question, NOT an argument :roll:

With the years of concern over runway incursions, why haven't the responsibilities of the ground controller been held to a higher standard of prevention?

The tower controller watches the skies with eyes and radar, in spite of the fact that they are not responsible for VFR traffic.

Why isn't the ground controller watching their charges with equal concern?

Before someone tries to excuse it with "workload", may I remind that a single pilot has a lot of workload as well.

Paul, there is nothing to elaborate. I disagree with this.

EDIT: So Paul can understand, I disagree with the premise that ground controllers are somehow held to a lower standard than other controllers and they have less concern than other controllers.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby Wm.Ince » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:15 pm

Jim Hardin wrote: . . . “Why isn't the ground controller watching their charges with equal concern?” . . .

What proof do you have that supports that presumption?
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby drseti » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:24 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Paul, there is nothing to elaborate. I disagree with this.


Well, Tim, it was a longish post, and your response was rather terse. Thanks for highlighting the part you disagree with.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:50 pm

Paul, my response was not terse. The OP expressed a premise and I said I disagreed with his premise.

EDIT: So Paul can understand, I disagree with the premise that ground controllers are somehow held to a lower standard than other controllers and they have less concern than other controllers.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby TimTaylor » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:53 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
Jim Hardin wrote:A question, NOT an argument :roll:

With the years of concern over runway incursions, why haven't the responsibilities of the ground controller been held to a higher standard of prevention?

The tower controller watches the skies with eyes and radar, in spite of the fact that they are not responsible for VFR traffic.

Why isn't the ground controller watching their charges with equal concern?

Before someone tries to excuse it with "workload", may I remind that a single pilot has a lot of workload as well.

I disagree with your premise.

So Paul can understand, I disagree with the premise that ground controllers are somehow held to a lower standard than other controllers and they have less concern than other controllers.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane;
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea;
Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine;
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby Jim Hardin » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:02 am

Would it be better if I just start a New Topic one this and you good folks can use this on to continue your back biting and unrelated bickering???

Maybe I should go to another forum altogether.

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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby FastEddieB » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:08 am

Jim Hardin wrote:Would it be better if I just start a New Topic one this and you good folks can use this on to continue your back biting and unrelated bickering???

Maybe I should go to another forum altogether.


Are you looking for one where no one disagrees with you?

Good luck!
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drseti
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Re: Responsibilities of Ground Control

Postby drseti » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:05 am

TimTaylor wrote:So Paul can understand, I disagree with the premise that ground controllers are somehow held to a lower standard than other controllers and they have less concern than other controllers.


Thank you, Tim. That is very clear. The OP had covered a lot of ground, so your initial response did not make it clear to me which premise you disagreed with. This was much more specific.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying


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