Didn't make my first flight tonight.

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:43 am

i just got my ctsw back from getting a new fire wall blanket installed, an annual inspection and the rotax gear box re-build.

flight design west flew a ctsw 2 hours to come pick me up so i woudn't have to drive.

last year when there were mods on the rocket flight design flew those same to hours and did the mods in my hangar.

my experience is that flight design isn't happy unless i'm happy

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 am

artp wrote:
Roger wrote:We had fourteen planes last year, expecting over twenty this year. Attended by folks from all over the county and the world.
So you have 14 happy owners out of how many planes sold? ....

perfect example of art's bashing.

15% of the ctsw's made it to mcminnville for the 1st fly-in art's spin is this means there are 14 happy owners out of 200.

good job art, if you didn't fly to oregon you are not happy with your ctsw. no wonder you retired from computer programming your logic is weak

artp · Post by **artp** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:06 am

CharlieTango wrote:don't forget artp was going to sell his ctsw (for a loss) about 6 months before he took delivery

No one wanted to buy it then either.

artp posts a fair amount and you seldom see a post from him that isn't bashing the ctsw.

just to be fair

I have indicated it starts easy, and it is easy to add air to the tires. However, since I have only been able to fly 10 hours in 6 months, wait and average of 4 weeks for a service appointment, 6 weeks for parts, and still have the initial delivery problems not fixed, it is hard to be very positive about the plane.

owenstrawn · Post by **owenstrawn** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:38 am

CTflyer wrote: Reminds me of Cessna announcing last summer that it had received over 1000 orders for its new LSA Skycatcher. Then later admitted that 800 of those orders were from its own Cessna Pilot Centers, that were required by Cessna to order at least one.

Onward through the fog!
Tom

First, Cessna has never said any such thing. I've seen people here and elsewhere make those kind of comments, but they were specifically labelled as speculation, and they've been rebutted.

Second, last summer Cessna announced there were 720 orders, NOT over 1000. In December they said that orders were up to slightly over 900, and since the new year the "first 1000" price has been discontinued, but AFAIK Cessna has never claimed more than 1000 orders.

Third, there is NO requirement that any Cessna Pilot Center must buy a Skycatcher. To qualify for CPC affiliation they have to operate at least one Cessna that is less than two years old, but it doesn't have to be a Skycatcher.

Fourth, there are only 286 CPCs in the entire world.

Fifth, I've seen an employee newsletter that showed how the first 901 orders broke down between CPC, CSTAR (sales offices), and customer direct orders. CPC orders amounted to less than a third of the total.

CTflyer · Post by **CTflyer** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:03 am

Owen - you've pointed out more than I realize! I've become so negative about my own experiences trying to find Sport Pilot instruction, I tend to see (and remember) only the down side.

I'm still trying to remember where I read all that, altho' I *think* part of it was here, part on the AOPA and StudentPilot forums, and part on the (now removed) Cessna Skycatcher comments forum, where the Cessna Marketing VP (Aniello?) actually referred to many of those numbers.

Thanks.
Tom

Roger · Post by **Roger** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:47 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVD0j6T2yhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_6hrjs4 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=putzEMtM ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3LBy88h ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDMZL_B5 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48EuPHR ... re=related

Roger

ruo · Post by **ruo** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am

They have the most numbers of unit sales for a reason, I'd guess.

artp · Post by **artp** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:13 am

ruo wrote:They have the most numbers of unit sales for a reason, I'd guess.

They spent their money on marketing rather than customer support. It is far more important to them to have high sales and market penetration than repeat customers.

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:10 am

artp wrote:
ruo wrote:They have the most numbers of unit sales for a reason, I'd guess.
They spent their money on marketing rather than customer support. It is far more important to them to have high sales and market penetration than repeat customers.

currently i have 2 friends that are flight design repeat customers.

flight design is lucky to have you artp, otherwise they would need to articulate their priorities themselves. too bad you got it 180 degrees wrong

artp · Post by **artp** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:15 am

CharlieTango wrote: flight design is lucky to have you artp, otherwise they would need to articulate their priorities themselves. too bad you got it 180 degrees wrong

All I know is that after 6 months I still haven't been able to get Flight Design to fix my plane. You must have a different definition of customer service than I do.

CharlieTango · Post by **CharlieTango** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:45 am

artp wrote:
CharlieTango wrote: flight design is lucky to have you artp, otherwise they would need to articulate their priorities themselves. too bad you got it 180 degrees wrong
All I know is that after 6 months I still haven't been able to get Flight Design to fix my plane. You must have a different definition of customer service than I do.

you expect my definition of customer service to be based your reports of your bad results as opposed to my good results? i have already mentioned that flight design has always been available to service my ctsw. they have made a total of 5 trips in two years to either do the work in my hangar or to pick me up or drop me off. that is 10 hours of flying on their part to keep me happy.

to be honest art it might be time to look to yourself. you just pointed out that your plane didn't sell when you put it up for sale long before your took delivery. your sales attempt would never work because you present a totally negative picture, of an "unsafe" airplane that is badly designed and not worth flying, great approach.

now you are doing the same thing again, can't get service, many problems, buy this plane. i don't believe you are even serious you just like to bash.

i have to suspect that your dealership might see you as their worst nightmare. i suspect it is hard to bend over backwards for you when you are so negative.

artp · Post by **artp** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:46 am

CharlieTango wrote:i have to suspect that your dealership might see you as their worst nightmare. i suspect it is hard to bend over backwards for you when you are so negative.

I see them as my worst nightmare. I am not asking them to bend over backwards I am only trying to get my plane repaired. As I said I have been waiting 6 months with no results, if that wouldn't make you negative then I would have to question the validity of your enthusiasm for the CTsw.

tadel001 · Post by **tadel001** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:36 am

FYI...I recently saw a report breaking down the ownership of LSAs. Interestingly, there were a lot of Flight Designs owned by dealers that did not have them in flight school, i.e. inventory to be sold. Apparently, Flight Design requires it dealers to buy airplanes. The dealers than have to register them in the US. Most of those registered airplanes are not individual owners. I am not saying the CT is bad...just I don't think number of registered aircraft is an accurate indicator of quality...otherwise, the Sky Catcher would be very qualified (even though it hasn't flown).

Now, I am not saying that the above is accurate, just what I have heard/seen on my own. Thoughts?

ruo · Post by **ruo** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:59 pm

Sounds about right to me.

By the way, I wish there were some way that a local TV consumer reporter could intercede on artp's behalf, as an objective 3rd party.

The last thing the dealer would want is adverse publicity and it's unlikely things could get any worse with artp's plane than they are now.

Roger · Post by **Roger** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:48 am

tadel001 and ruo,

Come on guys. Your right, the dealers do buy their aircraft and then guess what - they sell them!!! Imagine that!!! It's kind of like any retailer in the world - they buy their goods, put them on the floor and customers come along and purchase them - duh!

Do your homework PLEASE before you write some of this stuff. These airplanes are owned and being flown all over the world. Do a YouTube search for instance and you'll find films of flights from happy customers around the globe.

Read about the Indian Air Force, look at some of the flights the Candians have made. The list just goes on and on.

Maybe one or two percent of the total are owned by dealers at any current moment so what - they're certainly not going to be stuck with them! And it's a business concept that must work or these guys wouldn't be number one.

Listening and forming opinions on one guy who's had some bad luck with his certainly doesn't mean the hundreds of the rest of us have.

The facts pure and simple....this company has more LSA's in pilots hands then any other LSA. This happened because it's available now and it's a very credible airplane period.

Roger H

Sport Pilot Talk

Didn't make my first flight tonight.

Re: I challenge you to come on down!

a couple of folks whose heaters and batteries must work!!

Get real....