Light Sport Aircraft for time building

[Icedog47]

I am currently exploring a career change into aviation. While I am thinking about going the trading CFI route I am also thinking about non a non traditional route of purchasing an aircraft to build to my 1500 hours as I have a current job that pays reasonably well. Would love to know aircraft recommendations from this group that wouldn’t be super expensive from an hourly operation perspective.

[Icedog47]

Also looking for something that is IFR rated- could be acquired for around 60k and is relatively common for resale and matiance purposes.

[JimParker256]

"IFR Rated" and $60K likely takes you out of Light Sport and into standard-category aircraft. One airplane I would suggest you consider is the Grumman-American AA-5 series: the Traveler and Cheetah. These 4-place sliding-canopy airplanes cruise quite a bit faster than a 172 on 150 hp, but don't climb quite as well. There is a pretty decent support network, with "Grumman Gurus" located in at least four locations around the US that stock a lot of the unique parts for them. A quick check of Barnstormers showed several available in the $45-70K range (and one absolutely gorgeous outlier for $110K).

A '75 Traveler was my first airplane. That's the plane that was the transition between the American Aviation Traveler and the Lopresti-streamlined Grumman-American Cheetah. It had a lot of the aerodynamic cleanups that came with the Cheetah, but still had the original Traveler horizontal tail. Some claim it was the "fastest" of the 150 HP AA-5 series. I found it to faster than the older Travelers, but about the same as the Cheetah. Side-by-side cruise was pretty much identical to the same HP Cheetah for me... My Traveler was relatively inexpensive to purchase and insure, had excellent speed and decent range (mine had the larger fuel tanks), and was a blast to fly.

If you go this route, make sure you get a pre-purchase inspection from a knowledgeable Grumman mechanic. Like any older airplane, there are some issues that can be costly to repair. These days, finding one with delimitation is pretty unusual - most have been repaired by now... And DO join one of the two Grumman Owners groups BEFORE you buy the plane. You'll learn a lot about the airplane, have the opportunity to get some transition time from a qualified instructor who can show you how to fly it right...

Just beware: There are a LOT of know-nothing armchair pilots out there spouting truly bad information about how "you gotta land 'em at 100 knots or they'll kill you..." That's exactly 100% incorrect. Landing fast is THE leading cause of landing-related mishaps in Grummans (and many other airplanes, for that matter). A qualified instructor will teach you to fly it "by the book" and if done that way, it is super-easy to land, and about as much fun as anything you can do fully dressed!

[Murphy]

Any LSA aircraft in the E-LSA or EAB experimental categories can be flown IFR with the appropriate equipment (assuming it has current operational limitations). A S-LSA can be converted to E-LSA also. So it would be appropriate to use an LSA for your purposes.

It will be difficult to find one in the $60k price range, but ultimately cheaper in the long-run than an older certified aircraft. Consider a Roaxr powered LSA that burns less than 4 gallons per hour. A 2 gallon/hour savings on fuel over 1500 hours at $5/gallon equates to a savings of $15k. That's about the cost of a GTN650 and antennas.

[Murphy]

tried to say Rotax

[drseti]

Any LSA aircraft in the E-LSA or EAB experimental categories can be flown IFR with the appropriate equipment (assuming it has current operational limitations).

That's quite a big assumption, Murphy. I've seen many an Experimental aircraft with limitations sheets (or placards) that said "day VFR only" or "day and night VFR only". It's all about what the DAR signed off on when processing the Airworthiness Certificate, and very difficult to change afterward. So buyers are cautioned to read the documentation carefully.

Those interested are invited to view my videos "IFR in an LSA" at https://avsport.org/webinars/videos/IFR_LSA.mp4, and "Fast Track to Experimental" at https://avsport.org/webinars/videos/elsa.mp4.

[JimParker256]

Any LSA aircraft in the E-LSA or EAB experimental categories can be flown IFR with the appropriate equipment (assuming it has current operational limitations). A S-LSA can be converted to E-LSA also. So it would be appropriate to use an LSA for your purposes.

It will be difficult to find one in the $60k price range, but ultimately cheaper in the long-run than an older certified aircraft. Consider a Roaxr powered LSA that burns less than 4 gallons per hour. A 2 gallon/hour savings on fuel over 1500 hours at $5/gallon equates to a savings of $15k. That's about the cost of a GTN650 and antennas.

Not the E-LSA that I own and operate. The operating limitations specifically states:
21. Kinds of operations authorized:
Day VFR flight operations are authorized. (47)
22. Night flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in Part 91.205(c) are installed, operational, and maintained per the applicable requirements of part 91. (48)

There is no mention of IFR operation approval, nor any provision for obtaining such approval.

[drseti]

Not the E-LSA that I own and operate.

There is no mention of IFR operation approval, nor any provision for obtaining such approval.

Blame the DAR who wrote your Operating Limitations, Jim!

[Murphy]

I'm guessing I got a "better DAR" who put the following statement in my OPS Limitations for my 2021 RV-12iS:

23. Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments in FAR 91.205(d)are installed, operational, compliant with the performance requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations.

So there are E-LSAs out there that can fly IMC operations with the appropriate ops limits and hardware. They may be rare, but they exist.

[drseti]

When the LSA rules went active in 2006, there was a lot of confusion as to what was allowed (even among those DARs who studied the regs). By the time Murph's DAR licensed his RV-12 fifteen years later, many (but not all) DARs were getting their act together. So, I suspect that the newer an ELSA is, the more likely it is to have Operating Limitations authorizing IFR.

The corollary is, the older an ELSA is, the less likely it is to have those privileges. So any prospective buyer should read the Limitations sheet very carefully.

[3Dreaming]

When the LSA rules went active in 2006

2004

Also some SLSA built prior to sometime in 2010 can be operated IFR as well, but it requires more research.

[drseti]

2004

Thanks for the correction.

Also some SLSA built prior to sometime in 2010 can be operated IFR as well, but it requires more research.

That's correct, Tom. Early on, a few manufacturers wrote IFR into the Operating Limitations of a handful of SLSAs, until ASTM Committee F37 got wind of it and specifically prohibited it.

[3Dreaming]

That's correct, Tom. Early on, a few manufacturers wrote IFR into the Operating Limitations of a handful of SLSAs, until ASTM Committee F37 got wind of it and specifically prohibited it.

They were strongly encouraged by the FAA to make the change. I don't know if there were any accidents, but there was a couple of emergencies with a CTSW where the fuel vents iced over and the engine quit while IFR. At least that is what I remember.

[JimParker256]

Not the E-LSA that I own and operate.

There is no mention of IFR operation approval, nor any provision for obtaining such approval.

Blame the DAR who wrote your Operating Limitations, Jim!

That's the "interresting" part - my E-LSA was signed off by an FAA person, not by a DAR. It's a RANS S6-ES built from a kit, but the builders completed it during that brief window of time when "overweight" ultralights could be registered as E-LSA, provided they had never been licensed as anything else, and otherwise met the LSA requirements. The builders did that, I believe, to allow maintenance by either of them – or even by a potential future owner (me!) - after completion the Light Sport Repairman course. The "downside" (if that's really a downside) to that decision was that the FAA really didn't know what they were doing with E-LSA at that time (a condition that still seems to persist in parts of the country). My original set of operating limits were clearly cut-and-pasted from other documents, and seemed oddly non-cohesive, with footnote numbers (but no footnotes), etc.

After I bought the plane and moved it from Montana to Texas, I had to get the test flight area changed, which resulted in a completely revised set of operating limits that were MUCH more coherent and aligned with present-day practices, except for the VFR only limitation (which carried over from the original). It doesn't bother me in the least, because the S6 would probably make as good an instrument platform as a J-3 Cub (meaning not very), and I have zero desire to fly in IMC these days.

[FastEddieB]

On my 2007 Sky Arrow, converted to E-LSA status in 2009, this is what my Operating Limitations say:

10. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.
11. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument
flight in accordance with $ 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.