Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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MegL
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Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby MegL » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:05 am

Hey, I'm a student pilot looking to buy either the Sling or the RV-12iS. The RV 12 seems to be a good, well proven and well-supported aircraft, and I like the useful load. Price and operational ceiling (17,500!) also compare favorably with the Sling for someone living in the high desert with mountains nearby. Looks like the landing gear issues with the RV have been addressed. My concern though is that it tends to be very windy here, and the demonstrated crosswind performance of the RV-12 is significantly lower than the Sling (11 vs. 15 knots).

I've flown both airplanes, and while they both handle exceptionally well, the Sling feels more solid and flies like a bigger plane. Downside is that it's relatively new in the US, with just over 30 registered as compared to 650 RV's. Any feedback from Sling owners re: reliability / maintenance issues or other concerns, and RV-12 owners re: crosswind performance? Thanks!

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Warmi
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Warmi » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:29 am

The price will be lower for sure for the RV 12 but any operational limitations like max ceiling should be pretty much the same given that both use the same engine.

Frankly, both planes will perform similar given that both are reasonably sleek low wings running the same engine.

One notable difference is that the Sling is built to run at gross of 1500 lbs Vs 1320 for the RV which may give you options in the future if rules do change.

I personally would select Sling any day over RV 12 if it came down just to these two planes and price was not a factor but then again, price is always the factor and , you are right , you gonna get much wider support with RVs.
In fact , I was quite close to purchasing a Sling 2 back in 2017 and ultimately decided on another plane mainly because I was ( perhaps irrationally) uncomfortable with rather low ( especially back then) number of Slings in the US - another side effect was the fact that there were no used Slings available for sale and my only option was a brand new plane for 160k - while I could get an almost new Sting S4 for significantly less..
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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MrMorden
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby MrMorden » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:26 pm

I hate the RV-12 fuel tank setup. Hate. On that basis alone I would not own one.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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Warmi
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Warmi » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:44 pm

You mean the fact that one is sitting on top of it ?
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

MegL
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby MegL » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:15 pm

Not on top, but fuel is behind the seats. Main gear underneath has also been beefed up. https://youtu.be/yFfLBz2AVcw

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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:37 pm

MegL wrote:Hey, I'm a student pilot looking to buy either the Sling or the RV-12iS. The RV 12 seems to be a good, well proven and well-supported aircraft, and I like the useful load. Price and operational ceiling (17,500!) also compare favorably with the Sling for someone living in the high desert with mountains nearby. Looks like the landing gear issues with the RV have been addressed. My concern though is that it tends to be very windy here, and the demonstrated crosswind performance of the RV-12 is significantly lower than the Sling (11 vs. 15 knots).

I've flown both airplanes, and while they both handle exceptionally well, the Sling feels more solid and flies like a bigger plane. Downside is that it's relatively new in the US, with just over 30 registered as compared to 650 RV's. Any feedback from Sling owners re: reliability / maintenance issues or other concerns, and RV-12 owners re: crosswind performance? Thanks!



I took delivery of my Sling LSA in July and flew it back to NY from LA. I have about 50 + hours on her now, thanks to Mother Nature. She hasn’t to kind to the northeast.

All I will say is, I love my Sling! I originally leaned towards the -12, but when Van’s couldn’t deliver their LSA in a reasonable time period, I moved on. Had I know and flown the Sling beforehand I prolly would have skipped the -12 entirely. Do Not get me wrong...The -12 is a fantastic a/c, whether building the kit or buying it factory built. On the plus side, if and when the FAA ups the weight limits for LSA aircraft, TAF has already said they will sign off on the change. In the case of the Sling 2, that’s 1320 to 1540 MAUW. It also holds 39.6 gallons of fuel, when topped off and the gas is in the wings, not behind you.

I admit, at first, I was a bit skeptical purchasing a plane that was not well represented in the US, let alone built in SA, but after meeting TAF team in Torrance, any reservations I had were unfounded.

PM me if you any specific questions about the Sling or TAF..

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Warmi
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Warmi » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:57 pm

MegL wrote:Not on top, but fuel is behind the seats. Main gear underneath has also been beefed up. https://youtu.be/yFfLBz2AVcw


Yeah, I know remember reading about raptured fuel tanks in RV 12s causing some issues ... I mean there are hundreds of these flying around if the tank was really a major problem we would be hearing more about it.

Another consideration - I don’t think you can get a ballistic parachute with vans designs - not sure if that matters to you but it did to me :D
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

MegL
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby MegL » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:34 pm

The RV 12 doesn't offer a chute, and once I decided I was willing to fly without one it doesn't feel too difficult to forego it on the Sling - especially considering the weight issue. I also live in a less congested area with lots of open road & sandy desert around. What prompted you to go for the chute?

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Warmi
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Warmi » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:49 pm

MegL wrote:The RV 12 doesn't offer a chute, and once I decided I was willing to fly without one it doesn't feel too difficult to forego it on the Sling - especially considering the weight issue. I also live in a less congested area with lots of open road & sandy desert around. What prompted you to go for the chute?


It is just another option ... especially valuable when you are out of options.

I think of flight safety issues as a set of safety layers, each one attempting to address individually unlikely scenarios but all of them contributing to a reasonably bullet proof outcome ...
Having a BRS fits right there , say in an unlikely case of survivable midair or structural failure ...or the only pilot onboard passing out ... or even engine out over some really hostile terrain ... none of them particularly likely ...but if it does happen I would like to have some other options than just praying :D
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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drseti
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby drseti » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 pm

Warmi wrote:or even engine out over some really hostile terrain ...


I'm not completely ruling out a BRS. But, if you don't happen to have one, then just don't fly over really hostile terrain!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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cam737
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby cam737 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:43 pm

Hi MegL. I have been building a Sling 2 with assistance of Midwest Sky Sports. Love the Sling 2. Love the way it flies/handles, sliding canopy, long range tanks, 1540 MTOW (experimental category), BRS, full glass IFR capability (experimental category), G3X Touch technology, great fit-and-finish, etc...

PM or email with any questions.

Cam
cam737
Sling 2 Build
cam737@mac.com

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MrMorden
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby MrMorden » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Warmi wrote:
Another consideration - I don’t think you can get a ballistic parachute with vans designs - not sure if that matters to you but it did to me :D


Here's the problem I have with Van's in general: Van, and by extension his whole company culture, are kind of macho dicks about chutes, and about any criticism of their airplanes. I actually asked Van at Oshkosh why they didn't offer a BRS in the RV-12. The response: "Because we sell our airplanes to pilots." That was it, he turned and walked away.

This attitude permeates the entire RV community. Also at Oshkosh, I was looking at an RV with a friend of mine who is building one, and the owner walked over. My friend chatted with him a bit about the airplane, and finally the owner asked if we flew in. I said yes, but that I don't fly an RV. The response: "Well at least you have room for personal improvement in your life." That was it, he turned and walked away. My friend and I looked at each other with slack jaws. WTF?

That same builder friend of mine almost decided to build a different airplane type, because, in his words: "I'm afraid that if I build an RV I will have to become an asshole."
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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drseti
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby drseti » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:48 pm

MrMorden wrote:"I'm afraid that if I build an RV I will have to become an asshole."


No, you don't have to. That's just a factory-approved option. :wink:
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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Wm.Ince
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:05 pm

They have sold a ton of RV-12 kits. It is very well established in the LSA market.

That withstanding, I would rather own a Sling 2, for the following specific reasons:

1) It has a slider-type canopy.
2) Fuel tanks are in wings (all 39.6 gallons of it. That’s 19 gallons more than RV-12).
3) Has an optional ballistic parachute recovery system.
4) More engine options (can be equipped with Rotax 914 engine, providing better climb and cruise altitude performance).
5) Commonly setup for IFR (Garmin G3X everything).
6) More cargo space.
7) I think it is a better looking, low-wing airplane (strictly a personal preference).

Possible Sling 2 drawbacks . . . for present LSA, it is heavier than RV12 and a tad slower at cruise and climb rate.

Reports indicate they both fly equally wonderful.
Bill Ince
CTSW (E-LSA)
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

Wm.Ince
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Re: Sling LSA vs RV-12iS

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:07 pm

drseti wrote:
MrMorden wrote:"I'm afraid that if I build an RV I will have to become an asshole."

No, you don't have to. That's just a factory-approved option. :wink:

Great comeback and quite funny.

By the way, that “factory approved option” is available from all manufacturers.
Bill Ince
CTSW (E-LSA)
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator


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