Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Warmi
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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby Warmi » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:31 pm

jetcat3 wrote:The handling without the anti-servo tab (2006-2010) is insanely sensitive. Even the ailerons are larger and too sensitive in my opinion.

As far as the weight goes, the Aeroprakt A22LS is a sweet flying airplane and essentially eliminates that issue. Looking forward to flying an A32 in the near future. I believe the A32 Vixxen is the best value aircraft in all of LSA right now, but the P2008 turbo is the best overall.



Yes, I want to try the new A32 as well - it appears to be an awesome deal since you can get a brand new spanking plane of CTLS class for about 120 K ( if you skip the dual Dynon/Garmin extravaganza ) which is exactly half the price of P2008 and about 60 K less than the latest Flight Design.

Yeah, the P2008 has bit more refined finish and a more powerful engine ( not by much though ) but, hell, none of that even comes close to 120 K difference , not in my book ...
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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby ShawnM » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:52 pm

jetcat3 wrote:The handling without the anti-servo tab (2006-2010) is insanely sensitive. Even the ailerons are larger and too sensitive in my opinion.

As far as the weight goes, the Aeroprakt A22LS is a sweet flying airplane and essentially eliminates that issue. Looking forward to flying an A32 in the near future. I believe the A32 Vixxen is the best value aircraft in all of LSA right now, but the P2008 turbo is the best overall.


Yeah, but once you get used to it she flies like a sports car. I'll admit it took several hours to get it under control but now I wouldn't want the anti-servo tab or a less responsive plane. :mrgreen:

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby jetcat3 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:43 am

You can definitely get used to it, but where it bothered me was in turbulence as the stick would make violent movements when hit with gusts. I preferred landing the newer ones when it was gusting 28. Just my personal preference.

Also, I wouldn’t say the 914 turbo is marginally better than the 912 ULS. It’s an impressive difference from my experience especially at high density altitudes.

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby Warmi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:03 am

jetcat3 wrote:...

Also, I wouldn’t say the 914 turbo is marginally better than the 912 ULS. It’s an impressive difference from my experience especially at high density altitudes.


That may be true, still, I could strap a 915is and a constant speed prop on a 140k plane and still come out well below the asking price for the P2008.
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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby drseti » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 am

Warmi wrote:I could strap a 915is and a constant speed prop on a 140k plane and still come out well below the asking price for the P2008.


Yes, but:

(A) with a constantly speed prop, you no longer have an LSA.
(B) even without a constant speed prop, given the ASTM useful load requirement, the weight of a 915 on an LSA probably wouldn't give you enough payload to be anything other than a one-place aircraft.

If we are to stay within the LSA limitations, the 915 probably won't work.
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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby Warmi » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:43 am

drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:I could strap a 915is and a constant speed prop on a 140k plane and still come out well below the asking price for the P2008.


Yes, but:

(A) with a constantly speed prop, you no longer have an LSA.
(B) even without a constant speed prop, given the ASTM useful load requirement, the weight of a 915 on an LSA probably wouldn't give you enough payload to be anything other than a one-place aircraft.

If we are to stay within the LSA limitations, the 915 probably won't work.


Well, you are correct at the moment but this limitation will go away sooner or later and , from a purely market point of view , it will be hard to justify a plane that cost twice as much with a smaller engine and while not doing anything particularly better.

But then again, with markets so small - you can make your profits just off of super rich who frankly don't care about the price as Icon Aircraft seem to be demonstrating.
Having said that, I still wouldn't mind owning P2008 :-) - I am just not super rich so I will have to content with 140K and cheaper planes :-)
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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby drseti » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:49 am

Warmi wrote:I am just not super rich so I will have to content with 140K and cheaper planes :-)


In that case, you should be looking for a gently used, 3 year old LSA. There are quite a few good ones out there at or below your price point.
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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby ShawnM » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:34 pm

Warmi wrote:Having said that, I still wouldn't mind owning P2008 :-) - I am just not super rich so I will have to content with 140K and cheaper planes :-)


If money grew on trees and I happen to have one in my backyard I'd own a P2002 Sierra MKII. But since I'm also not rich I'll have to resort to digging in my couch cushions for gas money to fly my 2007 SportCruiser around. :mrgreen:

I guess there's always the lottery.

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby jetcat3 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:11 pm

You could probably get away with Tecnam’s demo Orange Sierra MKII for $140K.

I think the 915 iS will find its way into some LSA’s this year. There are many STOL aircraft that will be able to utilize this engine even with fixed pitch props as Trent Palmer is right now.

An S7 Supersport with a fixed pitch 915 would still be a compelling upgrade. Rams, Just Aircraft, etc.

Another manufacturer I believe would benefit is BRM Aero. Hopefully they will be able to bring along an ASTM compliant Bristell that utilizes the MT constant speed prop. Exciting times!

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:09 pm

jetcat3 wrote:
I think the 915 iS will find its way into some LSA’s this year. There are many STOL aircraft that will be able to utilize this engine even with fixed pitch props as Trent Palmer is right now.
!


It’s my understanding that the 915iS requires a constant speed prop, so, unless the FAA changes the rule, no 915iS in an LSA.

Progressive Aerodyne, (SEAREY) is working on an auto constant speed prop. If certified, it could be the answer to the problem.

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby jetcat3 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:19 pm

Trent is running a 79” 3 blade Luga fixed pitch prop on his 915 iS. Pretty great performance too! The only problem is you can’t buy an ASTM S7 Kitfox from the factory with the STi wing. With high drag STOL aircraft the constant speed prop isn’t as big of a deal I don’t think. Trent’s numbers aren’t all that different from the factory STi running the MT 75” 3 blade constant speed that is all controlled through the throttle like you’re saying.

Here’s a video of him talking about it.

https://youtu.be/HP2fAtf3p08

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby ShawnM » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:25 pm

Trent is also not flying a LSA, it's an E-AB so the sky's the limit as to what he wants to do.

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby jetcat3 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:05 am

Yes of course. I’m sharing this information because the fixed pitch part is pertinent to us.

The 915 iS is an ASTM approved engine now. With the success Trent has had I would definitely go for a Kitfox S7 SLSA that is running this engine coupled with a fixed pitch prop.

I’m sure there will be a number of other manufacturers eager to try the 915 with a fixed pitch prop as well. That’s great news for all!

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:54 am

ShawnM wrote:Trent is also not flying a LSA, it's an E-AB so the sky's the limit as to what he wants to do.


Just because it is E-AB doesn't mean the sky is the limit. If he is flying it as a sport pilot it still has to meet the CFR 1.1 definition.

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Re: Any Czech/Piper Sport Cruiser owners out there?

Postby ShawnM » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:20 am

3Dreaming wrote:
ShawnM wrote:Trent is also not flying a LSA, it's an E-AB so the sky's the limit as to what he wants to do.


Just because it is E-AB doesn't mean the sky is the limit. If he is flying it as a sport pilot it still has to meet the CFR 1.1 definition.


He's not, Trent is a private pilot not a sport pilot. And of course there are "some" limitations but not like LSA. Maybe my statement was a bit of an overgeneralization but when compared to LSA the sky is pretty much the limit with E-AB.


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