3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Merlinspop
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Merlinspop » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:13 pm

While I think this is great overall news, it has the potential to be seriously depressing for me if my SI doesn’t happen.
- Bruce

TimTaylor
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:56 pm

That's why I am content to fly with Sport Pilot privileges rather than take another FAA physical. At almost 71 years of age, it's a risk I'm not willing to take. There is nowhere I want to fly to that I can't do in a SkyCatcher or other LSA. If the two rental planes I fly are no longer available, I guess I'll break down and buy something, although owning an airplane is not something I want to do.
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foresterpoole
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby foresterpoole » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:12 pm

This is interesting, and slightly disconcerting. If this does come to fruition 172's would be considered LSA, Tigers, just about any 4 place non-complex or high performance. That would be huge: no medical, or basic med needed. I believe that those legacy LSA platforms like the Sportcruiser, Sling, Sportstar, Technam, even the Bristell's uses prices would be dropping fast. On the flip side legacy Cessna, Piper, etc. hulls could see a price jump. But the devil is in the details, will legacy certified aircraft be eligible to operate under some new LSA rule? Will a new 172 suddenly not require certified parts? If so I can see the price for factory new airframes dropping thanks to a lack of the need for TSO'd equipment. I also just had a gut check about the amount of time and money I spent getting a private to fly that 172, when I could have waited and saved a few bucks (I seldom fly at night and don't have an instrument rating yet). But I guess hind sight is 20/20, lol.

I have one nagging thought in my brain however:
what happens when you put an LSA trained pilot with lower hours in a heavier airframe? I imagine smart people will get transition training, but I can see someone with a cowboy mentality saying "it's just a plane" and buying the farm. Too many of those and the FAA will put a big fat damper on the whole thing I imagine.
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Warmi
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Warmi » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:20 pm

Training with lower hours has nothing to do with it - a newly certified PP is just as clueless as a newly certified SP -having a few more required hours means nothing , especially if you consider variability between different people in terms of how many hours they need to feel comfortable in the first place.

It is all about transition training - certified to LSA, LSA to certified -doesn’t matter, got to learn how to fly a particular plane before you want to fly it.

Btw. I think you made the right decision to go with PP certificate. Unless getting a medical is an issue, I see absolutely no reason to go for SP -you end up spending similar amount in training and have to learn essentially the same skills ,yet end up with a lot more limiting certificate...
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TimTaylor
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:30 pm

There is absolutely nothing disconcerting about this IMHO. It just seems to good to be true. Anything that makes it easier for more pilots to fly more airplanes safely is a good thing. So what if you could have spent less training or waited to buy a Cessna instead of an LSA. You make your decisions and live with the consequences. There is a lot of flying to be done between now and the time any of this could possibly happen, if it does.

A Cessna 150 or 172 is as easy to fly as a Cessna 162. So is a Cherokee 140 or 180. If this actually gets approved, there could possibly be other changes to Sport Pilot requirements. Who knows? Don't try to throw cold water on this. It would be a great thing. If you already own an LSA, good for you. This change would not require you to sell it. Nothing changes for you.

Bottom line, rules and regulations should not be written to protect the elite. They should be written for the betterment of all people. If current aircraft owners suffer a loss in the value of the airplane they chose to buy, that's just too bad. Wouldn't it be great if the value of all aircraft dropped 50 percent tomorrow?
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Merlinspop
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Merlinspop » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:07 pm

So... what are the chances of this scenario:

Someone took 750kg and converted it to 1650 pounds. Then someone else came along and didn’t realize that was already converted and multiplied it again by 2.2 getting 3630, then rounded down to 3600 because we like round numbers. And then nobody proofread the results.
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foresterpoole
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby foresterpoole » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 am

Let me clarify, I'm all for less ownerous regulation and less expensive flight time, having flown both LSA and 172's I'd consider a 172 easier to fly and more comfortable thanks to the heavier weight: less turbulence and it gets blown around less, but there are differences which would in my opinion require transition training.

I'm just thinking what the actual changes will effect. Is it aircraft certification, pilot certification or both and to what extent. Making a vague announcement like this just leads to more , speculation, since the government is involved I'm sure it's not going to be as clear cut as this announcement might indicate...
Ed

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Scooper
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Scooper » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 am

Merlinspop wrote:So... what are the chances of this scenario:

Someone took 750kg and converted it to 1650 pounds. Then someone else came along and didn’t realize that was already converted and multiplied it again by 2.2 getting 3630, then rounded down to 3600 because we like round numbers. And then nobody proofread the results.

There's a lot of scuttlebutt that this is exactly what happened. If true, there should be clarification early this week.
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TimTaylor
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:31 am

foresterpoole wrote:Let me clarify, I'm all for less ownerous regulation and less expensive flight time, having flown both LSA and 172's I'd consider a 172 easier to fly and more comfortable thanks to the heavier weight: less turbulence and it gets blown around less, but there are differences which would in my opinion require transition training.

I'm just thinking what the actual changes will effect. Is it aircraft certification, pilot certification or both and to what extent. Making a vague announcement like this just leads to more , speculation, since the government is involved I'm sure it's not going to be as clear cut as this announcement might indicate...

That damned f'ing government.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TimTaylor
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:32 am

Scooper wrote:
Merlinspop wrote:So... what are the chances of this scenario:

Someone took 750kg and converted it to 1650 pounds. Then someone else came along and didn’t realize that was already converted and multiplied it again by 2.2 getting 3630, then rounded down to 3600 because we like round numbers. And then nobody proofread the results.

There's a lot of scuttlebutt that this is exactly what happened. If true, there should be clarification early this week.

3600 pounds is not even reasonable. I was hoping for enough to make a C150 legal as LSA.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby drseti » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:43 am

My guess is that the NPRM will be for 1600 pounds. 3600 is a simple and obvious typo.
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Sling 2 Pilot
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:53 am

I also believe the 3600 to be a typo. If I were to be true, it opens the door to many questions. Mine would be, loosing the certified parts and avionics, WHAT manufacturer (some no longer in business) will authorize changes to the aircraft or issue LOA’s on planes built, in many cases 30, 40 or more years ago???

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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:38 pm

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:I also believe the 3600 to be a typo. If I were to be true, it opens the door to many questions. Mine would be, loosing the certified parts and avionics, WHAT manufacturer (some no longer in business) will authorize changes to the aircraft or issue LOA’s on planes built, in many cases 30, 40 or more years ago???

I would assume, just because a certified airplane falls within a revised definition of LSA, nothing would change for it if the manufacturing company no longer exist. It would still need to be maintained per it's certification. Don't we already have that situation for a lot of vintage LSA? The only difference is it could be flown by a Sport Pilot or other pilot using Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:59 pm

Let's hope for 1670 pounds. I think that will cover all Cessna 150's and 152's and should be ample for any possible increases for the current crop of 1320 pound LSA's.
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Sling 2 Pilot
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:20 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:I also believe the 3600 to be a typo. If I were to be true, it opens the door to many questions. Mine would be, loosing the certified parts and avionics, WHAT manufacturer (some no longer in business) will authorize changes to the aircraft or issue LOA’s on planes built, in many cases 30, 40 or more years ago???

I would assume, just because a certified airplane falls within a revised definition of LSA, nothing would change for it if the manufacturing company no longer exist. It would still need to be maintained per it's certification. Don't we already have that situation for a lot of vintage LSA? The only difference is it could be flown by a Sport Pilot or other pilot using Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


Tim, still way too many planes out there, like Piper, Cessna etc. LIABILITY is the killer here, imo.


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