3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Warmi
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3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Warmi » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:54 pm

Just saw it on Facebook from AOPA ...

In January the FAA will issue a notice of proposed rulemaking increasing max weight for a light sport airplane from 1320 lbs to 3600 lbs. And ADS-B rebate will be back again in a few days. More to come.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... c29ff6bc13

3600 lbs - that would be essentially a game changer ...
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

TimTaylor
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:08 pm

I'll believe it when I see it.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:40 am

Agreed.

I wonder if that means that any of the aircraft meeting the new definition could be converted to E-LSA. And so, maintained by the owner and even make owner annual condition inspections within reach with the 16-hour course.

That would be huge. Thinking E-LSA Citabria or Tiger, let’s say!

Wonder about the other Light Sport Limitations, such as stall and cruise speed. If those remained in place, it would severely cramp the choices available.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby drseti » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:48 am

Even if the NPRM is issued, it takes 2 to 5 years for it to wend its way through the multiple layers of the review, comment, amendment, and approval process. And what is eventually adopted may bear little resemblance to the initial proposal. So don't get too excited here. Still, this could be a game-changer as big as Basic Med.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby RTK » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:17 am

AOPA’s reporting of the announcement:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ale-fly-in

Seems 4 seat aircraft may be considered as LSA as I understand what was posted. Interesting. I’m still waiting it out as I would like to see it formally announced. But it’s certainly exciting.

But more exciting and relevant is the return of the ADS-B rebate! I get another chance at it! :D

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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby drseti » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:38 am

One thing that confuses me about this announcement is that the rumored forthcoming NPRM is totally at odds with ASTM Consensus Standards. I know of no such discussions in ASTM Committee. Does it appear that FAA is preparing to decouple LSA FARs from ASTM standards??? Or, maybe, they're just proposing to expand the Sport Pilot privileges to allow them to fly certain non-LSA certified aircraft, without redefining LSA limitations. Either way, this is going to have implications for how we CFIs do flight training toward the SP rating. I imagine I'm going to have to rewrite my whole curriculum if this comes to pass.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Type47 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:29 am

drseti wrote:Even if the NPRM is issued, it takes 2 to 5 years for it to wend its way through the multiple layers of the review, comment, amendment, and approval process. And what is eventually adopted may bear little resemblance to the initial proposal. So don't get too excited here. Still, this could be a game-changer as big as Basic Med.


Perhaps then, all of us in aviation need to push for speedier process.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby smutny » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:26 am

FastEddieB wrote:I wonder if that means that any of the aircraft meeting the new definition could be converted to E-LSA.


If the new parameters match the current ones, any new aircraft certified as SLSA could be moved to ELSA. But you could not move a legacy aircraft to ELSA. Like I can't move my PA-11 from Standard Category to ELSA.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby drseti » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:28 pm

Type47 wrote:Perhaps then, all of us in aviation need to push for speedier process.


Unfortunately, due process is a slow process. This is true of all Government agencies that issue administrative rules. First, somebody has to petition for a rule making. Then, after studying the issue and considering its implications, the agency may issue an NPRM. After that is published, there is a time period for public comments. After that, the comments are published, and then starts a period for public replies to the comments. The replies are published, and the public gets a chance to comment on the replies. Eventually, the agency may publish an amended NPRM, incorporating changes in response to public comments and replies. There is a final opportunity for public input, before a final rulemaking takes effect.

Democracy is a slow process!
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Warmi » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:48 pm

If this comes to pass , one side effect will be that we will end up with two classes of LSA planes - the old , physically ( or procedurally , if the manufacturer does want to play along ) not eligible for the new limits and the new LSAs ..

This will drop the re-sell prices of the first category LSAs significantly ... so I guess now is the time to get rid of anything that cannot be re-classified , and buy a Sling 2 or other plane that can .. :D
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:14 pm

I don't agree there would be two classes of LSA. Each aircraft would still be limited to it's certification limitations. There are probably no existing LSA that the manufacturer could raise the limits from 1320 pounds to 3600 pounds. I do agree that the 1320 pound LSA's might lose some value, but who cares? When you buy something, that is always a possibility.

If they were to raise the LSA weight limits, I feel confident the stall speeds and other speed limits, etc. would be raised also. Otherwise the increase in weight would make no sense and be of little to no use. They would also increase from 2 seats to 4 or maybe 6 seats. After all, how many 2 seat aircraft are there that weigh 3600 pounds? They could increase the number of seats, but may or may not allow more passengers (for Sport Pilots that is).

If this ever comes to pass, it will be huge and better than Basic Med.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:55 pm

Another obvious question would be constant speed props and retractable gear.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby Warmi » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:26 pm

Well, one thing for sure , if this gets announced in January, it will result in the industry wide Osborne effect - good luck trying to make money selling current crop of LSAs.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:34 pm

Maybe, to some extent. Did Basic Med have that effect? I think there are and always will be plenty of pilots for whom a 1320 pound LSA is still attractive. I would just as soon own a SkyCatcher as a Cherokee 140. I doubt many people buy any aircraft with the intention of making money.

That said, if they allow those of us flying with Sport Pilot privileges in a Cherokee 140 (LSA) fly IFR, that might be a different story.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3600 lbs gross for LSA ?

Postby drseti » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:43 pm

TimTaylor wrote: I doubt many people buy any aircraft with the intention of making money.


True. For most of us, the intention when we buy a plane is to try not to lose too much money.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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