Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:42 pm

Wm.Ince wrote:Just for the sake of discussion . . . the Sling 2 can be built and registered as S-LSA, E-LSA or E-AB.
If the aircraft is registered as an LSA, the MTOGW is limited to 1320 lbs.
But if the airplane is registered as an E-AB, its MTOGW is 1540 lbs.
All 3 airplanes are identical in basic construction.

Here's the question:

If the airplane is built and registered under LSA rules (MTOGW 1320 lbs.), but subsequently, a weight limit increase (let's say 1540 lbs.) is initiated for LSA's, under FAR's, what would be the chances of obtaining an increase in the weight limit to 1540 lbs, since the airframe is built to those specs to begin with?


Question asked, question answered. The Airplane Factory has stated, that they would approve the change in weight for the Sling, should the FAA up the weight limit.

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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby Wm.Ince » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:54 pm

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
. . . "The Airplane Factory has stated, that they would approve the change in weight for the Sling, should the FAA up the weight limit."

Can you provide us with a verifiable reference for that?
Bill Ince
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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:40 am

Wm.Ince wrote:
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
. . . "The Airplane Factory has stated, that they would approve the change in weight for the Sling, should the FAA up the weight limit."

Can you provide us with a verifiable reference for that?


Bill, the topic came up two weeks ago, when I was in CA taking delivery of my Sling.

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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby dstclair » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:30 am

drseti wrote:
dstclair wrote:Constant speed, or more likely variable pitch prop -- probably, depending on the $$$. But would not bother with doing the upgrade until it was time to replace or, perhaps, overhaul my DUC prop.


If you have the DUC Swirl prop, its blade flexibility already gives you many of the advantages of a constant speed prop, while remaining within LSA restrictions. Probably nothing to be gained by upgrading.
True -- I realized around 5-7 kts increase in cruise when I upgraded to the DUC prop so a true variable pitch prop would probably push me beyond current limits and not be that cost effective.
dave

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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby Wm.Ince » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:14 am

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
Wm.Ince wrote:
Sling 2 Pilot wrote:. . . "The Airplane Factory has stated, that they would approve the change in weight for the Sling, should the FAA up the weight limit."
Can you provide us with a verifiable reference for that?
. . . the topic came up two weeks ago, when I was in CA taking delivery of my Sling.

Who at "The Airplane Factory" stated, "they would approve the change in weight for the Sling, should the FAA up the weight limit?"
Bill Ince
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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby MrMorden » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:33 am

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
skyleader wrote:Can anyone share insight into the possibility the FAA will increase speed &/or weight limits for LSAs in the near future? IMO, it seems illogical to handicap these excellent aircraft at such low, artificially-limited restrictions. Such a move would open a new venue for LSA sales for those of us who like to fly cross country.


Here is the latest from Airventure...

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/L ... 209-1.html


It's kind of weird that the "4 year process is halfway complete", but nobody outside of the FAA and maybe EAA have even seen the proposed rules yet. It all seems very cloak and dagger, almost like they are trying to pull one over on somebody who's not paying attention. Time will tell whether that somebody is the old guard at the FAA or us.

It's interesting that weight is not alone on the possible list of edits. Stall speed? Max speed? Complex features? Who knows. I'm also curious if edits to the SP rating are coming too. None are really needed if they change LSA definitions, since SP's (and PP's flying under SP rules) can by definition fly any LSA (in a category they are trained for). I'm still pining for a night flying endorsement for SPs, though.
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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby MrMorden » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:47 am

BTW, my CTSW doesn't really need much of a weight bump, since it's already pretty light and my useful is 575lb. But an extra 110lb up to the float plane limit would be glorious, that would give me two 200lb people, full fuel, and 80lb of bags. I could make any trip I want with that in the airplane. Even if I could go beyond that, I don't know that I would. I'm sure the airplane performance would start to get pretty weak, and it would be tougher on the landing gear.

I wonder if any proposed weight change is an FAA acknowledgement that many LSA out there are flying over gross, and the FAA is trying to make compliance easier so that at least not so many people are flying over gross without any engineering done to see if it's safe for their airplane. Plus being able to capture all the 150s/152s out there for training makes LSA and the SP rating much more attractive, rather than having to fly halfway around the country to find somebody that can train you.
Andy Walker
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LAMA: Higher LSA Weight Good for the Industry

Postby Wm.Ince » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:13 pm

Bill Ince
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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:24 pm

I'll volunteer to purchase a C150/152 if they will let me be a "test case" for the effect of increased MTOW on safety. That seems only fair since I missed out on Basic Med by only 45 days.
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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby MrMorden » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:39 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I'll volunteer to purchase a C150/152 if they will let me be a "test case" for the effect of increased MTOW on safety. That seems only fair since I missed out on Basic Med by only 45 days.


I feel you. I'd like to see the ten year "you have to have a medical to fly without a medical" catch-22 go away, it reminds me of the deal where if you can't pass a medical you can't fly, but if you know you are sick as hell and never try to get a medical, you can.
Andy Walker
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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:42 am

MrMorden wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I'll volunteer to purchase a C150/152 if they will let me be a "test case" for the effect of increased MTOW on safety. That seems only fair since I missed out on Basic Med by only 45 days.


I feel you. I'd like to see the ten year "you have to have a medical to fly without a medical" catch-22 go away, it reminds me of the deal where if you can't pass a medical you can't fly, but if you know you are sick as hell and never try to get a medical, you can.


I think its not about having NO medical but more about establishing a baseline from which the FAA is happy for you to go forward from that point. Trust but verify? Pilots said that they were medically safe to fly but didn't want the hassle and expense of 'regular' FAA medicals. The recent changes meet that.

Similarly, the Driver's License "medical" whilst being pretty basic does still require you to meet vision and certain health standards as well as having a good record with respect to DUI etc

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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby Turn & Slip Inn » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:19 pm

I posted my comments regarding this matter in another section, but felt it may be appropriate to repost them.

Here’s a different perspective regarding expanding the weights/performance of LSA aircraft: from outside the airfield fence. As a former glider pilot looking at obtaining a sport pilot certificate the availability of aircraft remains a major barrier in parts of the country.

For example, established flight schools in my area (Omaha, Nebraska) currently do not offer sport pilot training, unless you have your own aircraft. At last check the nearest sport pilot program with aircraft available for rent (Iowa Flight Training) is located in Cedar Rapids, Iowa; that’s a roundtrip of approximately 550 miles. Imagine for a moment you wanted to learn to fly, but you had to drive an 8-hour roundtrip for each lesson.

By expanding the weights/performance criteria to include aircraft such as the Cessna 140/150/152, Piper Tomahawk or Diamond DA20 more existing flight schools would be able to offer sport pilot training and services. In addition, the USAF aero clubs may consider offering the sport pilot training to service members. In my case, such a change would provide at least four flight schools an opportunity to expand their training programs to include light sport.

Several have mentioned the safety aspects of allowing an increase in the weights/performance of LSA aircraft. Others within this forum have briefly touched upon the benefits of standardized weights/performance with our European counterparts. Each has a valid point worthy of further discussion and detailed examination.

From my perspective, looking from outside the airfield fence, changing the weights/performance criteria to include more existing aircraft is logical. Such changes can only serve to improve general aviation and potentially grow the number of individuals within the sport using existing resources.

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Re: Increasing speed/weight limits for LSA?

Postby TimTaylor » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:22 pm

I don't think you'll get any argument from anyone here.
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