Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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TimTaylor
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:45 pm

Maybe he is going to use it for exhibition. Never say never. You don't know that.

Again, I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea or makes sense. I would sell the LSA and purchase a Mooney. If you don't like LSA limitations, don't purchase an LSA.
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comperini
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby comperini » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:22 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I'm not sure you are correct when you say, "you cannot do the change." If you take it out of LSA limits, it MIGHT be possible for it to fall within some other classification, but it would no longer be an LSA and could not be flown by a Sport Pilot or someone operating under Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


If you take it out of LSA limits, then your airworthiness certificate is invalid, And the plane illegal to fly, until a new airworthiness in some other subcategory (other than E-LSA) is issued
- Bob
COMM, CFI, DPE, Light Sport Repairman/Maintenance
http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

TimTaylor
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 pm

comperini wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I'm not sure you are correct when you say, "you cannot do the change." If you take it out of LSA limits, it MIGHT be possible for it to fall within some other classification, but it would no longer be an LSA and could not be flown by a Sport Pilot or someone operating under Sport Pilot privileges and limitations.


If you take it out of LSA limits, then your airworthiness certificate is invalid, And the plane illegal to fly, until a new airworthiness in some other subcategory (other than E-LSA) is issued

Correct
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c162pilot
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby c162pilot » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:46 pm

Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.

comperini
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby comperini » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:51 pm

c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time.


By definition, you should also be able to order it as an E-LSA at the time of purchase.
- Bob

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http://www.sportpilotinstructor.com

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ShawnM
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby ShawnM » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:03 pm

c162pilot wrote:......There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time.


You dont need that option, you simply order the S-LSA version and convert it yourself "at another point in time" with your local DAR that's qualified to do so. :mrgreen:

3Dreaming
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:24 pm

c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

TimTaylor
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:31 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:48 pm

TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.

Warmi
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby Warmi » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm

What is so different about motorized gliders that makes medicals unnecessary ?
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

3Dreaming
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:52 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
c162pilot wrote:Turns out the European manufacturer has clarified the issue for me. You can order the plane two ways from their factory: 1) as an S-LSA that is limited to 120 Its and 2) as an Experimental Exhibition Racing with a constant speed prop that can exceed 120Kt which also means you need to be a private pilot to fly it. There is no option to order and an S-LSA and convert at another point in time. They also suggest that you can register as a glider instead of a aircraft and then there is no medical requirement either but you need a glider rating. This seems way to risky for me as who knows what may happen in the future should the FAA catch-up on the fact that there are many folks flying around in motor-gliders with no medicals whatsoever just like they did with fat ultralights.


There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.

3Dreaming
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Warmi wrote:What is so different about motorized gliders that makes medicals unnecessary ?


it is classified as a glider instead of airplane. No medical is required for a glider.

TimTaylor
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:58 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.
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TimTaylor
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby TimTaylor » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:03 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
There is a big difference between flying around in a motor glider and what used to happen with fat ultralights. With the motor glider you must have a pilot certificate, flight review, and currency if you are carrying passengers.

Also I believe that to certify as a motor glider you need to meet a certain aspect ratio for the wing design, but I don't have time to look up the specifics right now.

I would have thought there is some definition of what constitutes a glider or motor glider. I seriously doubt you can certify any LSA as a motor glider, unless it is one. The beauty of the motor glider option is if you have failed your last medical and can't get a new one, the motor glider would be a decent option.


Actually there have been a few SLSA motor gliders. The Lambada is one.


My point was, I don't think you can certify a C162 or CTLS or CTSW as a motor glider just because you want to or because you have modified it and it no longer meets the definition of an LSA.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Can convert LSA to E-LSA to fly faster than 120 kts.?

Postby 3Dreaming » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:32 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:If you take it outside the LSA limits, I don't know how it would be classified, but you would definitely need a Private or higher to fly it. A Sport Pilot can only fly LSA. You would also need a current medical or Basic Med.


You are mostly right, you wouldn't have to be a private or higher. Unless the horsepower is increased above 180, or it is extensively modified a recreational pilot would be able to fly it.


My thinking does not even include Recreational Pilot since I have never seen or heard of anyone who is one.


I do know a recreational pilot. I also provide it as an option to students who ask about a sport pilot rating purely from a cost perspective.


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