AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Hambone
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Hambone » Thu May 10, 2018 3:21 pm

I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.

Warmi
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Warmi » Thu May 10, 2018 3:27 pm

FastEddieB wrote:
zodiac flyer wrote:Call me old fashioned, but I like the "keep it simple stupid" KISS.


Call me old fashioned, but when I heard them extolling the level of “integration”, it made it sound quite complex to me.

Driving today, I had a thought: someone could buy a Ranger, take it Experimental LSA, sell the Continental for good money and buy one’s ROTAX of choice and hang it on the front. Voilá! Problem solved! Were it truly a KISS aircraft, it would be relative straightforward. But then I remembered the level of “integration” in the instruments and electronics and airframe, and suddenly it sounds like a Herculean task.

But still a fun thought exercise!


I think electronics would be easy to switch since most EFIS setups ( including Dynon's own ) can interact with multiple engines out of the box - you just need matching probes etc ...
IMHO the real issue would be the new firewall and managing CG changes - much bigger task without explicit support from the factory.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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drseti
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby drseti » Thu May 10, 2018 5:02 pm

MrMorden wrote: but many "geezers" (video's term, not mine!) Have no tolerance for anything that doesn't say Continental or Lycoming on the rocker covers.


Speaking as the Geezer in Charge...

It's a simple matter to remove the Rotax rocker box covers, and replace them with ones that say Lycoming or Continental. Problem solved! ;)
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TimTaylor
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby TimTaylor » Thu May 10, 2018 5:28 pm

I would be happy with a Rotax engine in the Vashon Ranger. With the Contential, it is on the verge of being too heavy to be practical for most people.

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MrMorden
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby MrMorden » Thu May 10, 2018 5:44 pm

Hambone wrote:I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.


Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more. Hard to see what it brings to the table beyond the “geezer factor”...
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby FastEddieB » Thu May 10, 2018 6:32 pm

MrMorden wrote:
Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more.


Not to mention the price of spark plugs!
Fast Eddie B.
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ShawnM
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby ShawnM » Thu May 10, 2018 7:11 pm

Warmi wrote:It is too heavy for sure.
Even for your typical pattern work is not good enough if both , your CFI and the student, are at around 200 lbs.


I agree, at 882 pounds it's by far the heaviest LSA I'VE seen. As he stated it's only 8 pounds shy of the max limit for LSA.

It needs a Rotax engine. :mrgreen: Then the BEW becomes around 807 (+/- a few pounds if Andy's calculations are correct)

And if you lowered the price by $7k they'd sell like hotcakes. Of course they lose the "geezer factor". :mrgreen:
Last edited by ShawnM on Thu May 10, 2018 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Hambone
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Hambone » Thu May 10, 2018 7:13 pm

MrMorden wrote:
Hambone wrote:I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.


Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more. Hard to see what it brings to the table beyond the “geezer factor”...

I was thinking more the “deal” Vashon may get buying a low-demand US engine in volume.

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MrMorden
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby MrMorden » Thu May 10, 2018 9:44 pm

Hambone wrote:
MrMorden wrote:
Hambone wrote:I reckon the Continental choice is a combination of "Made in the good ol' U S of A", air-cooled simplicity, economy of scale, and an attempt to keep the final cost down by minimizing options.

If Vashon can deliver at the advertised cost, I think they're still on to a winner.


Minimize cost? An O200D is $7k more than a Rotax 912ULS and weighs 75lb more. Hard to see what it brings to the table beyond the “geezer factor”...

I was thinking more the “deal” Vashon may get buying a low-demand US engine in volume.


The volume will not be high if they can’t sell them because they are too heavy... :mrgreen:
Andy Walker
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2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

TimTaylor
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby TimTaylor » Thu May 10, 2018 10:29 pm

What is the demand for a single place S-LSA?

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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby TimTaylor » Sun May 13, 2018 1:56 pm

I flew the Remos GX yesterday for a $300 BBQ plate. While it's a fun little aircraft, there is NOTHING about it that I prefer over the SkyCatcher. The more the Vashon Ranger resembles a SkyCatcher and the less it resembles a Remos GX, the more I will like it.

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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby jetcat3 » Sun May 13, 2018 6:31 pm

Just curious, how many of y’all have flown in a Tecnam P2008?

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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Wm.Ince » Sun May 13, 2018 9:58 pm

jetcat3 wrote:Just curious, how many of y’all have flown in a Tecnam P2008?

At $220,000+, I'd say not many.
Heard many nice things about it, but it is too expensive for my mission. YMMV.
Bill Ince
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Warmi
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Warmi » Sun May 13, 2018 10:31 pm

Same here. When I was looking for a plane , Tecnam was not really on the list - lovely looking planes and high end but ultimately it is still Rotax 9xx , still 1320 lbs max gross and really nothing there justifies 60-80k premium over other similar LSAs -and frankly, same goes for Bristells.

Btw. Not that their dealers care anyway ... the LSA market is so small that they can make decent living selling a few planes every year to a few very wealthy individuals who don’t really care about the price in the first place and want everything top of the line.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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drseti
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby drseti » Mon May 14, 2018 6:07 am

Warmi wrote:the LSA market is so small that they can make decent living selling a few planes every year to a few very wealthy individuals who don’t really care about the price in the first place and want everything top of the line.


You can delete the words "LSA" and it's still true. In a world of $350k Skyhawks, half million dollar Cherokees, three quarters of a million dollar Cirruses, and million dollar Bonanzas, it's a wonder any of these companies are still in business.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
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