AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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TimTaylor
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby TimTaylor » Wed May 16, 2018 3:59 pm

ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.

Yes and no. If it meets all the LSA specifications, then it's an LSA. Otherwise, a Sport Pilot can't fly it.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane; Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea; Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine; Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

RichK
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby RichK » Wed May 16, 2018 4:55 pm

Vashon Ranger demo flights now available at KPAE. $200 for 30-minute flight. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php

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ShawnM
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby ShawnM » Wed May 16, 2018 5:01 pm

TimTaylor wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.

Yes and no. If it meets all the LSA specifications, then it's an LSA. Otherwise, a Sport Pilot can't fly it.


Correct Tim, but I guess my point was that if you register as E-AB you dont have to keep it inside the parameters of a light sport, one could put a turbine in it if they wanted. :mrgreen: Nor is it "branded" light sport per the regulations like S-LSA or E-LSA aircraft.

Of course as you stated, a SP couldn't fly it.

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ShawnM
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby ShawnM » Wed May 16, 2018 5:02 pm

RichK wrote:Vashon Ranger demo flights now available at KPAE. $200 for 30-minute flight. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php


$200 for 30 minutes, 30 minutes? :shock: WOW!

3Dreaming
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed May 16, 2018 6:32 pm

ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.


What makes an aircraft a Light Sport is meeting the CFR 1.1 definition, nothing else. For certification purposes to be a ELSA or SLSA a prerequisite is it must meet the definition, but any airplane that meets the definition is a Light Sport regardless of certification method.

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ShawnM
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby ShawnM » Wed May 16, 2018 6:50 pm

3Dreaming wrote:
ShawnM wrote:
WDD wrote:So....

1) Build an RV12 Kit. Follow the instructions exactly, Vans will issue you paper work to certify as ELSA. Then you can put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will still be an ELSA.

2) Build an RV12 Kit. Put in a Viking engine, put on different wings, etc. Vans will not issue paperwork to certify as ELSA, so you have to register as an EAB. Keep it within LSA Specs. Will never be an ELSA.


Anything registered as E-AB is not a "light sport" aircraft and does not need to meet the definition of a light sport aircraft. You could put ANY engine into a E-AB RV-12.


What makes an aircraft a Light Sport is meeting the CFR 1.1 definition, nothing else. For certification purposes to be a ELSA or SLSA a prerequisite is it must meet the definition, but any airplane that meets the definition is a Light Sport regardless of certification method.


I understand that but again my point is that if you register it as E-AB it DOES NOT have to meet the LSA definition. But if you built it and it meets the LSA definition, great. Nowhere in your FAA paperwork or your 8130-6 does it say "light sport".

Later if you decide you want to put a turbine in or add another wing or a constant speed prop, you can. You cannot do this with a E-LSA.

jetcat3
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby jetcat3 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:18 pm

Warmi wrote:
drseti wrote:
Warmi wrote:I would say, ditch both Dynons and put that money towards upgrading to Rotax 915 :D


As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...


Like this?! What a sick combo.
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/

RTK
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby RTK » Wed May 16, 2018 7:34 pm

RichK wrote:Vashon Ranger demo flights now available at KPAE. $200 for 30-minute flight. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php


Whoa! I thought they wanted to sell these things! Maybe they're trying to see who is serious versus who isn't... but that's steep for 30 minutes.

Warmi
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Warmi » Wed May 16, 2018 7:53 pm

Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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ShawnM
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby ShawnM » Wed May 16, 2018 8:02 pm

jetcat3 wrote:
Warmi wrote:
drseti wrote:
As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...


Like this?! What a sick combo.
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/


Wow, awesome video.

And that is also a good example of an E-AB that at one time met the definition of a light sport but not anymore. Incredible take off. :mrgreen:

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ShawnM
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby ShawnM » Wed May 16, 2018 8:09 pm

Warmi wrote:Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.


Around these parts they run about $99 for anything from a LSA to a 172. Heck, I can get a 45 minute demo flight in a SR-22 for $179. :mrgreen:

Which I've really been meaning to do. Love the Cirrus aircraft.

RichK
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby RichK » Wed May 16, 2018 9:21 pm

jetcat3 wrote:
Warmi wrote:
drseti wrote:
As great an engine as the 915 is, it was never intended for the LSA market. It's even heavier that the Continental O200D. :-(


Not much though ... if they ever increased gross to 1500 lbs and allowed a simple , switch based , constant prop implementation in LSAs we would have a winner here with 915 - especially for STOL style , I want to climb out like crazy, applications ...


Like this?! What a sick combo.
https://www.facebook.com/KitfoxAircraft ... 693178976/


Sick in a good way ! ! ! Wow ! ! !

RichK
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby RichK » Wed May 16, 2018 9:25 pm

Warmi wrote:Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.


$200 per 30 minutes, according to Vashon. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php

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FastEddieB
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby FastEddieB » Wed May 16, 2018 9:48 pm

RichK wrote:
Warmi wrote:Actually, from what I have seen discovery/demo flights run about $150 or so per 30 minutes ... at least around here.


$200 per 30 minutes, according to Vashon. https://vashonaircraft.com/demo-flights.php


That might even sway me away from an aircraft.

I did not have to pay for a Cirrus demo, nor for two Sky Arrow demos - one for me and one for Karen.

I can see screening potential buyers somehow, but charging seems like it sends the wrong signal.
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Scooper
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Re: AVweb Video on Vashon Ranger + Aviation Consumer Article

Postby Scooper » Wed May 16, 2018 9:57 pm

I felt really cramped in the Kitfox with my 36" legs. I had headroom, but my knees were bothering me after 15 minutes; I wanted to stretch my legs, but couldn't. :(
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