Sport Pilot Talk

Cub flyer wrote:For now I’d hope to just keep all the SP airplane requirements the same but eliminate all mention of gross weight requirements.

Simple change to the existing rule.

I’d like to see the SP have the same owner FAR 43 appendix A, Paragraph C
Preventative maintenance list as the Private pilot owners as well as AC43-12

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safet ... aintenance

It seems dumb that a Private pilot with no maintenance training can perform these tasks on their King Air 200 or TBM but
a Sport Pilot owner can’t change oil on their J-3 or LSA

My understanding is that with Light Sport planes, what sort of maintenance is allowed on ones plane is determined by the manufacturer rather than the FAA - I like that.

Change max gross weight to 1700 pounds and increase stall speeds slightly. Or, allow Sport Pilots to fly non-LSA aircraft up to 1700 pounds with slightly higher stall speeds.

TimTaylor wrote:Change max gross weight to 1700 pounds and increase stall speeds slightly. Or, allow Sport Pilots to fly non-LSA aircraft up to 1700 pounds with slightly higher stall speeds.

That sounds pretty good.

The current reality is that if they increase max gross, it still leaves most existing LSA at the old limit because of stall speeds. My CTSW, for example, probably could not go up more than 30lb or so without busting the 45kt clean stall speed, and then only under ideal conditions. This would cause an interesting "mad scamble" by manufacturers' engineering departments to find out what they could get away with under new limits. You might see a lot of makers offer VGs, "high gross wing extensions" and other crutches to squeeze lower stall speeds out. It sure would be fun to see!

RV 9 has stall speed of about 40 knots with gross of around 1,750 lbs and max speed of about 150-160 knots.

Keep the stall speed low - after all LSAs are supposed to be gentle and benign - it is a natural limit on how crazy manufactures can go on the other side of the envelope ( you won't be seeing a Lancair style speed-daemon stalling at 40 knots anytime soon )

I would want it opened up a little to allow Sport Pilots to fly C150 and Cherokee 140 and maybe a few others. There is nothing wrong with the current LSA specs for the 1 percenters who can afford them.

Do the Light Sport airplane certification rules follow the normal processes in the FAA or is it all consensus standards to determine the rule framework?

No mention of any Notices of proposed rule making or similar. LSA changes seem to happen behind closed doors with odd waivers and exclusions.

Other items that bother me:
Once a standard cat or Experimental airplane has been certified for a weight of say 1450lbs it cannot be lowered to be flown by Sport Pilots. Standard cat Cessna 140 or Ercoupe D with STC to lower gross weight comes to mind. Same with excluding a older homebuilt experimental AB from being accepted for Sport Pilots by adding VG’s or lowering gross weight to lower the stall speed since it was not originally built that way.

Would this problem work both ways to exclude current 1320 LSA airplanes from a gross weight increase later if rules allow. The same for modifications to keep the stall speeds within the LSA limits at a higher gross weight. It’s the same problem just the other way around.

Each individual design applying for and being awarded or denied a wavier seems very troublesome and subject to personal or regional problems. It is this way in the current FSDO, ACO system with different interpretations of the rules. STC’s, field approvals and even type certificates in one area are approved that would be unairworthy if you tried to get approval through another FAA region.

The field Feds simply don’t know how to interpret their own certification rules or understand the data being presented.

Warmi wrote:RV 9 has stall speed of about 40 knots with gross of around 1,750 lbs and max speed of about 150-160 knots.

That's 40 KIAS. The ASTM LSA limit is 45 KCAS at max gross weight. The only Van's design that can currently meet that is the RV-12.

Cub flyer wrote:Do the Light Sport airplane certification rules follow the normal processes in the FAA or is it all consensus standards to determine the rule framework?

The latter, I'm afraid.

The field Feds simply don’t know how to interpret their own certification rules or understand the data being presented.

Sadly true.

drseti wrote:

Cub flyer wrote:Do the Light Sport airplane certification rules follow the normal processes in the FAA or is it all consensus standards to determine the rule framework?

The latter, I'm afraid.

Isn't LSA pretty much the only sector of aviation where bringing a new plane to the market doesn't take tens of millions of dollars and years of knocking on various bureaucratic doors ?

Warmi wrote:
Isn't LSA pretty much the only sector of aviation where bringing a new plane to the market doesn't take tens of millions of dollars and years of knocking on various bureaucratic doors ?

That's about to change with the Part 23 re-write. Its now to consensus commitees at ASTM to develop what the consensus standards should be.

Going back to Slings, I think the Sling 4 will be a fantastic IFR trainer in 2-4 years once the certification rules get figured out.

hook_dupin wrote:Going back to Slings, I think the Sling 4 will be a fantastic IFR trainer in 2-4 years once the certification rules get figured out.

Concur.
G3X, GTN 750/650 (certified GPS-RNAV, VOR and ILS) + 3-axis autopilot will make a great training plarform.
All of that is available right now, including the yaw damper (3rd axis).

Wm.Ince wrote:

hook_dupin wrote:Going back to Slings, I think the Sling 4 will be a fantastic IFR trainer in 2-4 years once the certification rules get figured out.

Concur.
G3X, GTN 750/650 (certified GPS-RNAV, VOR and ILS) + 3-axis autopilot will make a great training plarform.
All of that is available right now, including the yaw damper (3rd axis).

If you couple it with a nice rotax 915 , at 140 HP , would make for a really sweet package...
If only rotax 915 wasn’t so damn expensive....

Warmi wrote:

Wm.Ince wrote:

hook_dupin wrote:Going back to Slings, I think the Sling 4 will be a fantastic IFR trainer in 2-4 years once the certification rules get figured out.

Concur.
G3X, GTN 750/650 (certified GPS-RNAV, VOR and ILS) + 3-axis autopilot will make a great training plarform.
All of that is available right now, including the yaw damper (3rd axis).

If you couple it with a nice rotax 915 , at 140 HP , would make for a really sweet package...
If only rotax 915 wasn’t so damn expensive....

As you said, "2-4 years," I bet it will be available. If somebody wants it, The Airplane Factory guys will make it happen. They remind me a lot of Virgin's Richard Branson.

Cub flyer wrote: Watch they change the Light Sport airplane requirements but the sport pilot pilots remain at current limit.

This..... would be pure evil.

Warmi wrote: If only rotax 915 wasn’t so damn expensive....

And HEAVY!