Skycatcher par deux

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Warmi
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby Warmi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:12 pm

MrMorden wrote:
Warmi wrote:Sting S4 at 840 with 480 usefull ,that’s with BRS and autopilot but with only basic glass panel.


My airplane has a "basic" glass panel (Dynon D100), but all that is relative. My "basic" glass gives me airspeed, altimeter, vertical speed, slip/skid ball, heading (with bug), attitude indicator with bank angle and pitch angle increments, flight timers, checklists, G-meter, OAT, density altitude, TAS, bus volts, and working with the GPS gives me a simulated HSI. Functions I don't have connected include AoA and a built-in autopilot.

It's funny what people get used to and consider "basic"... :lol:


Agreed. I have a similar panel to yours - I should have called it , previous generation glass panel, rather than basic but yeah, it is without Synthetic Vision and other minor bells and whistles.
I was even thinking about upgrading it to something like Dynon Skyview but ultimately, between TruTrak EFIS , TrueTrak AutoPilot , Garmin 796 and Garmin radio/comm - the current setup gives me 95% of what Skyview or Garmin 3x would give me and I would have to shell out something like 15 K to get the remaining 5 %. Why bother ... I use Garmin Pilot on my mini iPad as my "fancy" GPS ( synthetic vision etc ) without getting married to a 15 K panel that is already obsolete the day you buy it .
The only downside is that iPads , being general purpose devices, don't have the same level of brightness as dedicated panels but I can live with that...
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

RTK
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby RTK » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:54 pm

I keep hearing that SportCruisers are porky. But compared to the Vashon, I'm doing pretty well. My BEW is 808.1 pounds, so I have 511.9 pounds of useful load. That's with a Dynon D-100, D-120 glass panel that works just fine.

I suspect that many LSA pilots fly alone, so perhaps that will work for the Vashon Ranger. But for training... yeah, I see that as a problem. The Sling aircraft had a similar problem and they had to remove the parachute to provide a little more payload capacity.

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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:17 pm

RTK wrote:I keep hearing that SportCruisers are porky. But compared to the Vashon, I'm doing pretty well. My BEW is 808.1 pounds, so I have 511.9 pounds of useful load. That's with a Dynon D-100, D-120 glass panel that works just fine.

I suspect that many LSA pilots fly alone, so perhaps that will work for the Vashon Ranger. But for training... yeah, I see that as a problem. The Sling aircraft had a similar problem and they had to remove the parachute to provide a little more payload capacity.


They did not remove the parachute from the Sling! It’s an option, you can take it or leave it. Can I ask where ever did you hear that?

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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby drseti » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:29 pm

RTK wrote:I keep hearing that SportCruisers are porky. But compared to the Vashon, I'm doing pretty well. My BEW is 808.1 pounds, so I have 511.9 pounds of useful load.


That's actually not too bad. I do a little better with my second Evektor. Empty wt is now 776# (up 12# from new after adding a bunch of avionics, including full panel-mounted ADS-B out and dual-band in), leaving me 544 useful load. But, we're both way better off than the Vashon.
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby Warmi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:03 pm

I have a sneaky suspition that my inherited, paper- based empty weight is somewhat off .... what is the most reasonable ( read , cheap :D ) way to weight an LSA?
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby drseti » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:15 pm

Warmi wrote:what is the most reasonable ( read , cheap :D ) way to weight an LSA?


I bought three low-profile digital 400# bathroom scales from Bed Bath and Beyond for about $40 each. Since I use them only on non-certified aircraft, for informational purposes only, they don't have to be calibrated - and they're still accurate to the nearest 0.2 pounds. See my Wt and Balance EAA Webinar for how to weigh an LSA and calculate CG.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby Warmi » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:26 pm

Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

RTK
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby RTK » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:15 am

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:They did not remove the parachute from the Sling! It’s an option, you can take it or leave it. Can I ask where ever did you hear that?


Apologies, I didn’t write that correctly (tapping this out on my iPhone.) the Sling Flight Club at KTOA removed the parachute from either N511NG or N514NG (at the time I was looking at flight schools) to allow for more payload capacity. Jordan Dennitz was the Air Boss back then for the flight school.

I like the Sling. A lot. And I liked the flight club. But the payload issue had me looking at another flight school.

But you are correct - the BRS parachute is an option on the Sling. Not sure if the current trainers are equipped or not with the BRS.

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby Jim Hardin » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:12 am

Curious, how do conventional instruments compare in weight to the gee whiz glass?

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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby drseti » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:15 am

Jim Hardin wrote:Curious, how do conventional instruments compare in weight to the gee whiz glass?


Mechanical round gauges are much heavier
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby David » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:37 pm

Ken Kreuger the engineer that was involved, was with Van’s and worked on many models along with the RV12.
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Warmi
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby Warmi » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:44 pm

drseti wrote:
Jim Hardin wrote:Curious, how do conventional instruments compare in weight to the gee whiz glass?


Mechanical round gauges are much heavier


You can get modern standalone gauges , like these http://mglavionics.com/html/vega_color_singles.html, which are lighter - on average 120 grams - so you can get about 10 of these for the weight of single Skyview (1600 grams). Of course , the skyview system is still much more convenient but also much more expensive ... pick your poison :D
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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MrMorden
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby MrMorden » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:36 am

Warmi wrote:Agreed. I have a similar panel to yours - I should have called it , previous generation glass panel, rather than basic but yeah, it is without Synthetic Vision and other minor bells and whistles.
I was even thinking about upgrading it to something like Dynon Skyview but ultimately, between TruTrak EFIS , TrueTrak AutoPilot , Garmin 796 and Garmin radio/comm - the current setup gives me 95% of what Skyview or Garmin 3x would give me and I would have to shell out something like 15 K to get the remaining 5 %. Why bother ... I use Garmin Pilot on my mini iPad as my "fancy" GPS ( synthetic vision etc ) without getting married to a 15 K panel that is already obsolete the day you buy it .
The only downside is that iPads , being general purpose devices, don't have the same level of brightness as dedicated panels but I can live with that...


I use Garmin Pilot also, and the iPad is my primary device. BTW, if you want SynVis it's built into the app and you can connect it to a GDL393D and use the AHARS in that. The only downside is no pitot/static, so you just get GPS altitude and ground speed. The SynVis is also good without an AHARS for seeing terrain ahead in limited visibility, you just have to use other instruments for pitch & roll indications.
Last edited by MrMorden on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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MrMorden
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby MrMorden » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:44 am

RTK wrote:I keep hearing that SportCruisers are porky. But compared to the Vashon, I'm doing pretty well. My BEW is 808.1 pounds, so I have 511.9 pounds of useful load. That's with a Dynon D-100, D-120 glass panel that works just fine.

I suspect that many LSA pilots fly alone, so perhaps that will work for the Vashon Ranger. But for training... yeah, I see that as a problem. The Sling aircraft had a similar problem and they had to remove the parachute to provide a little more payload capacity.


It's all relative. 808lb empty is pretty light for a SportCruiser, I think the one I flew in was around 825lb. Compared with the empty weight of 745lb for my CTSW, it's porky, but compared to the 830-840lb empty weight of the latest CTLSi, your SportCruiser is doing just fine.

If you and your wife or other favorite passenger are small and slender, useful load rarely comes up as an issue. But if you are both "plus sized", it's going to be a constant struggle to stay under gross weight. Just never tell your wife you can't make a flight because she weighs too much... :shock: :wink: :lol:
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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MrMorden
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Re: Skycatcher par deux

Postby MrMorden » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 am

Warmi wrote:I have a sneaky suspition that my inherited, paper- based empty weight is somewhat off .... what is the most reasonable ( read , cheap :D ) way to weight an LSA?


I had this discussion with the DAR when I converted to ELSA. He said you can weigh it if you really want to, but a calculated weight and balance based on equipment weights and locations is fine. I took the factory weight sheet and added the positions and weights of added equipment that was not already on the factory sheet (a Dynon D-100 added by the dealer before delivery, and a TruTrak AP and Matco wheels & brakes added by me). I then recalculated the W&B, and the DAR said that's fine as long as the arms for all changed gear are correct.

Personally, if it's acceptable to whoever needs the info (usually FAA or its designees), I'd *always* prefer a calculated weight to one from scales. It will almost always be lighter, and whatever the scales show you will be stuck with forevermore. If you do choose to re-weigh, I'd make sure everything not bolted to the airplane is removed: tools, iPad mounts, partitions & dividers, 12V chargers, cables, headsets, etc. You can weigh all of that separately, but you don't want it as part of the weight of your airplane. Make sure every drop of fuel is removed, liquids are heavy. Vacuum every particle of dust and dirt out of the airplane, degrease the engine, and wash the exterior thoroughly (let it dry completely, remember liquids are heavy!).
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA


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