Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:07 am

Since this got bumped, an update:

Still no news on any change to the Operating Limitations of the Sky Arrow.

Will email the factory to see what’s up.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:21 am

Roberto replied that the SB is taking longer than expected, but to expect something soon.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby FastEddieB » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:14 pm

I got the new Operating Limitations today.

First, the old:

Image

Now, the new:

Image

(The SB is mainly about installing the new placard and modifying the airspeed indicator markings and logging the same.)

At first glance...

Vne down from 132kts to 129kts
Max horizontal speed up from 110kts to 115kts
Va down from 90kts to 88kts
Takeoff run up from 470' to 538'
75% fuel consumption up from 4.9gph to 5.8gph with associated change in endurance (more reflective of real life, IMHO)

New POH to reflect changes, which I'm going to download now. Roberto at Magnaghi says the new decal will be on the way shortly.

Anyway, kind of a relief, with no real effect on day-to-day operations.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
CFI, CFII, CFIME
FastEddieB@mac.com

Warmi
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby Warmi » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:17 pm

Vh seems uncomfortably close to Vne but maybe I am being jut paranoid :)
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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drseti
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby drseti » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 pm

Vne is 12% above Vh. Seems like a comfortable margin to me.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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Warmi
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby Warmi » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:39 pm

Well,not to me :D ... I still need to work on my skills and overall alertness - remember recently having a soda and somehow leaning on the stick a bit which in turn resulted in picking up 10+ Knots in almost no time.

Thankfully on my ride Vh is at 120 and Vne at 164 which gives me a bit more room ....
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

Merlinspop
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby Merlinspop » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:09 am

The lowering of Vne would make the little voice in the back of my head say "Ruh Roh... maybe the structure isn't as strong as I thought it was."

This is where the argument of "Well, the same airframe is certified in other countries at XXX more pounds over 1320" makes that little voice say, "Good! That means at 1320 it probably exceeds the bare minimum requirements, and I won't fret every bump and burble as badly."
- Bruce

3Dreaming
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:44 am

Warmi wrote:Vh seems uncomfortably close to Vne but maybe I am being jut paranoid :)


With something draggy like the Sky Arrow it is OK to have the VNE a little closer to Vh compared to something slick like your Sting.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:56 am

From the SB:

"reduction of Vne for Sky Arrow LSA does not actually affect safety, considering the airframe of LSA is the same than the one of FAR23/CS-VLA version, tested and certified at higher Vne."

(weird wording and capitalization direct from the SB)
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
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drseti
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby drseti » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:47 pm

FastEddieB wrote:"reduction of Vne for Sky Arrow LSA does not actually affect safety,


The hell it doesn't! What is a Vne spec about anyway, if not safety?

All it's going to take is one accident in which Vne was exceeded, and that statement will be dragged into court as the final nail in the company's coffin.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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FastEddieB
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby FastEddieB » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:18 am

drseti wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:"reduction of Vne for Sky Arrow LSA does not actually affect safety,


The hell it doesn't! What is a Vne spec about anyway, if not safety?



Hey! Don’t shoot the messenger!

As I said, in practical terms this change for me is essentially a nonissue.

Here’s a cropped image from our last flight:

Image

Admittedly, I was throttled back a bit to get maximum benefit from the tailwind, but it’s rare for me to see indicated airspeeds much above 90kts regardless. On descents I may bump up against or go slightly into the yellow arc, but I don’t recall ever being anywhere near Vne.

But I agree the wording of the SB is suspect, and I’ll treat the new, lower Vne as a hard limit going forward.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
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FastEddieB@mac.com

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drseti
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby drseti » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:02 am

FastEddieB wrote:Hey! Don’t shoot the messenger!


Oh, I'm not at all doing that, Eddie. I'm just pissed off at those LSA manufacturers (and Sky Arrow is not the first) who adopt a "wink wink, nudge nudge" attitude toward safety. In one company's case, that's already led to two fatal accidents in a single year, and I just don't want any member of our Sport Pilot Talk family to become a statistic.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
SportPilotExaminer.US

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Jim Hardin
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby Jim Hardin » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:46 pm

My Personal Vne is the manufactures number MINUS 10!

Vne is not a number to play with! Something as simple as an extra shot or two of spray paint on a control surface can cause an airframe failure at or even below Vne.

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CharlieTango
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby CharlieTango » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:36 am

Jim Hardin wrote:My Personal Vne is the manufactures number MINUS 10!


Using indicated or true?

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drseti
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Re: Pending new revised Sky Arrow POH, revised Operating Limitations and SB

Postby drseti » Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:06 am

CharlieTango wrote:Using indicated or true?


All the V speeds are based upon indicated. That's the only information readily available to the pilot in flight.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
PhD CFII DPE LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC iRMT
AvSport LLC, KLHV
fly@AvSport.org
AvSport.org
facebook.com/SportFlying
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