Parachute repack

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3Dreaming
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:42 am

roger lee wrote:Placing a sign on that parachute handle that says in op doesn't mean you can't pull it. The one I had to put a lable on I wrote in op due to being out of date. Didn't mean it wasn't functional.


Roger, by regulation if a piece of equipment in a airplane is labeled INOP It is supposed to be deactivated. CFR91.213

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drdehave
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby drdehave » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:11 pm

1. "...by regulation if a piece of equipment in a airplane is labeled INOP It is supposed to be deactivated. CFR91.213" Not so, for LSAs; this is determined by the manufacturer. TL Ultralight SRO DOES NOT require the GRS recovery system, as minimum operating equipment, but it must be appropriately placarded when out-of-date. This is explained in the appropriate Service Bulletin: http://www.sting.aero/owners/notices/TL ... 20Life.pdf
In addition, one appropriate FAA reference is here, as item 17d: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... C_45-4.pdf

2. I know that it can be done in Little Rock, but I'd delighted if it could be done closer to home in Connecticut or a nearby state. Sorry, as far as I know, Little Rock is the only game in town for the Gallaxy chute. That's why we (who don't want to go that far--into tornado alley--on their schedule) may want to consider just converting to a new BRS chute, at some point (another year or two for me), for which there is USA Cirrus support. Somebody needs to call Bill or Mark at Sportair and find out if the BRS fits into the Gallaxy "nest" as a plug-n-play unit, or not? It must, if either one is allowed (see OEM Master List, here): http://www.sting.aero/owners/downloads/ ... v%2012.pdf

3. A few additional details about that 2012 deadly spin (with the chute not pulled) in a 2007 Sting (above): My 2007 Sting was manufactured the same month as the spin-plane. After the accident, which I knew about, I received a call from "accident investigators." It wasn't clear who they were or were representing. But they wanted to come examine my plane's parachute pull handle--and take pictures and video. At first, I agreed--and a date was set. But then I discovered, read & assimilated the final NTSB report. Only then did it become clear that someone representing the deceased or an insurance company was itching to pin some of the blame on TL and Sportair. They didn't get my help doing so!

4. I'm with Roger: Longevity of these chutes probably depends a lot on how the airplane is stored and cared for--and in what environment. Mine is in a Mediterranean Climate (with low-humidity summers), is always hangared, is never flown in rain, has drain-holes scattered along the bottom of the hull (earlier Stings did not--and you're supposed to ADD them!), and has a dehumidifier running in the cabin all winter. I'm betting it still works--if I need it--for at least a few more years. Anyone who doesn't feel the same should make the trek to Little Rock and open their wallets.
Last edited by drdehave on Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby TimTaylor » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:54 pm

Why did you buy a plane with a parachute if you didn't want to follow the requirements and/or incur the cost?
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dstclair
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby dstclair » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:38 pm

TL-Ultralight's Sting and Sirius all come equipped with chutes -- I'm not aware of an option to NOT have one installed.

I'd say it is possible a given owner wanted a Sting and it happened to have a chute which they may not have equipped otherwise. Once the repack was due, they decided that the value wasn't right for them. I would suggest having the chute removed so you get back the ~35lbs, if you no longer want the device.

Mine is due and I plan on having the repack done -- but I'm also only a 2 hr flight away from Little Rock. Others may make different decisions.
dave

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Re: Parachute repack

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:34 am

drdehave wrote:1. "...by regulation if a piece of equipment in a airplane is labeled INOP It is supposed to be deactivated. CFR91.213" Not so, for LSAs; this is determined by the manufacturer. TL Ultralight SRO DOES NOT require the GRS recovery system, as minimum operating equipment, but it must be appropriately placarded when out-of-date. This is explained in the appropriate Service Bulletin: http://www.sting.aero/owners/notices/TL ... 20Life.pdf


The manufacturer can't overwrite FAA regulations. This has been stated in more than one FAA legal interpretation. The question becomes is the minimum equipment list from the manufacturer FAA approved? I think you would have to ask FAA legal about that, and I don't think you will like the answer. Most documentation like airplane operating instructions, and maintenance manuals for SLSA aircraft are not FAA approved.

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Re: Parachute repack

Postby Ted Gordon » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:48 pm

I contacted Bill Canino at SportAirUSA about the possible use of a BRS parachutes in a StingSport, as drdehave suggested. Here is Bill's response:

Hello Ted,
No, I am not monitoring any of the on-line logs but willing to help when anyone asks.
The BRS is an acceptable option to the GRS.However the fittings and placement may require additional fiberglass and
fitment work.Additionally the activation handle would need to be lengthened to arrive in the front of the pilot.
Other than that I know of no other issues. If someone wanted a BRS we would order it from the factory and it would be
installed as OEM. It would be fitted at the factory for any BRS changes from the standard GRS installation.

Let me know if I can help further.
Thanks,
Bill
SportairUSA

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drdehave
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby drdehave » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:32 pm

Thanks, Ted, for checking with Bill Canino at SportairUSA about using the BRS chute. Unfortunately, the answer is a little vague--not what I was hoping for, but pretty much what I expected. Since we just keep coming back to square one on this--with Sportair in Little Rock, Arkansas being the only game in town for us--I am likely going to bite the bullet next spring for the 8-day (minimum, with my distance) affair. As all the naysayers here keep repeating, such is the cost of keeping that in-op placard off our dashes.

Speaking of that,...here's FAA's exact wording on the issue (of parachute placarding for s-lsa): "d. When an emergency parachute system has not been serviced to its maintenance schedule, the system is marked as inoperative until the maintenance has been accomplished." This is found in FAA AC No. 45-5, dated 11-16-2012 and found at item 17d., here: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... C_45-4.pdf

Hold the phone! I just received this email from SportFlyingShop.com, located at Torrance, CA (TOR): "Yes, we can do (Gallaxy) repacks from here. We still have to send the parachute to Czech. Cost is $2,200 and turnaround is about 6 weeks.--Matt 1-877-835-9464 or sales@SportFlyingShop.com." More later--after I speak with him! (Later) Okay! My problem (not wanting to go to Little Rock) is solved, I think. I will be dealing with SportFlyingShop in Torrance for the required repack and rocket updates. It does not even require the Sting going to Torrance! Ted, and any others interested, you may want to contact Matt directly, for details.

09/12 Update: My chute is coming out this Thurs. or Fri.--and going to the SportFlyingShop at TOR. Unfortunately, Matt just informed the cost is going up, and I'm the last one that will be charged $2,200. The new price will be "around $3,000." Still, if like me, you have absolutely NO desire to fly to Little Rock, this is a pretty good deal. For more particulars, including removal from the Sting, contact me direct at hotmail.com, using the username I use here--or get in touch with Matt. With luck, I'll be de-placarding in about 6-7 weeks!
Last edited by drdehave on Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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3Dreaming
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:53 am

drdehave wrote:
Speaking of that,...here's FAA's exact wording on the issue (of parachute placarding for s-lsa): "d. When an emergency parachute system has not been serviced to its maintenance schedule, the system is marked as inoperative until the maintenance has been accomplished." This is found in FAA AC No. 45-5, dated 11-16-2012 and found at item 17d., here: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... C_45-4.pdf


The AC speaks to markings only, and what it says is consistent with the regulation for required marking for INOP equipment. What the AC doesn't address is if the parachute has to be disabled as well. Again it boils down to, if the required equipment for a SLSA as provided by the manufacturer constitutes a FAA approved minimum equipment list.

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Re: Parachute repack

Postby Davidhayes » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:53 pm

Hi
I have had a GRS parachute repacked at 6 years and its now to be reinstalled. The aircraft is a Sirius TL3000 and Im trying to find aircraft specific installation documentation. Unfortunately the chute was removed by previous owner so we dont have the removal information.
I do have the generic documentation from GRS which is very good but we are unsure where the sling cables should be placed properly to safely remain clear of the rocket and its attachment to the chute if deployed

any advice very welcome

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Re: Parachute repack

Postby Warmi » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:53 pm

drdehave wrote:...
09/12 Update: My chute is coming out this Thurs. or Fri.--and going to the SportFlyingShop at TOR. Unfortunately, Matt just informed the cost is going up, and I'm the last one that will be charged $2,200. The new price will be "around $3,000." Still, if like me, you have absolutely NO desire to fly to Little Rock, this is a pretty good deal. For more particulars, including removal from the Sting, contact me direct at hotmail.com, using the username I use here--or get in touch with Matt. With luck, I'll be de-placarding in about 6-7 weeks!


Still ,$3000 beats SportAir price by a mile ( if not two ) so it is still better deal, especially for someone close by like you.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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drdehave
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby drdehave » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:41 pm

Davidhayes wrote:Hi
I have had a GRS parachute repacked at 6 years and its now to be reinstalled. The aircraft is a Sirius TL3000 and Im trying to find aircraft specific installation documentation. Unfortunately the chute was removed by previous owner so we dont have the removal information.
I do have the generic documentation from GRS which is very good but we are unsure where the sling cables should be placed properly to safely remain clear of the rocket and its attachment to the chute if deployed

any advice very welcome


David, I have the pictorial instructions for removing the GRS from early-model Sting S3s, which we did from my 2007 model, today. It was a 4-hr job and involves also removing and disposing of the solid rocket fuel, a small packet of black powder, and a percussion cap--before the rocket and chute can legally be shipped in for service. We of course took lots of pictures, during the removal, but I doubt these are of much value for your Sirius. Maybe the USA GRS dealer I am using (above) can help?

Now that my GRS chute is out & safely deactivated (and ready for shipment for servicing)--and I watched every step of the process, I'll say two things based on the experience: (1) I wish I would have just left it alone, and kept on flying! The whole thing was in pristine, like new condition. There was no corrosion anywhere. All three explosives ignited during disposal--after just short of 10 years. There were multiple safety & fail-safe mechanisms built in--and the rocket unit was covered and protected in many ways. Someone really in the know has personally told me that as long as the GRS never sees any water, there is no reason it shouldn't last almost indefinitely; (2) I would NEVER take the route I'm taking (i.e., to avoid the long run across country to Little Rock), unless I had a very competent mechanic experienced with installing/removing the GRS and/or BRS systems. Thankfully, mine was. --Rich
Last edited by drdehave on Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Davidhayes
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Re: Parachute repack

Postby Davidhayes » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:20 pm

Many thanks for the Advice. We have it installed now and just need to put the cover one. Yes the process is quite different for this one. The rocket actually is shipped with the chute all the way to Europe from New Zealand and was expensive. I will take some photos in vase anyone is looking for them in future.

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Re: Parachute repack

Postby drdehave » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:32 pm

Joyous flying, David!
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