New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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jetcat3
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby jetcat3 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:00 pm

Rick,

No problem at all! For some reason I don't have anything in my inbox?

Thanks,

Drew

RickSigler
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby RickSigler » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:41 pm

Drew,

Could you send it again? I got three others but not from you. Thanks. Rick

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zaitcev
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby zaitcev » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 pm

RickSigler wrote:I'm based at KABQ which is 5300' and we have several 10000' peaks in the area.


I'm based in ABQ area too (at E98) and I never noticed any problems getting to the border of oxygen on just the naturally-aspirated Rotax 912 engine. You can only use the 914 turbo if you also have oxygen onboard, and both cut into useful load in LSAs. In other words, a turbo is only worth anything in a heavier airplane that's designed to go into teens, IMHO. (obviously more power also gives you a better climb rate, which can be useful)

I don't have anywhere near your overall experience, but I have experience struggling with weight limits in LSAs. One time me and my wife went shopping from Albuquerque to Denver and we even discarded bags into which the purchases were put in the store.

On the other hand, I know that some people do not give a flip, because they themselves are very small. There's a lady based at SAF, Bonnie Mauldin, who flies a CTLS with every gadget known to man. That thing has the useful load below 500 lbs IIRC.

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MrMorden
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:25 am

zaitcev wrote:I don't have anywhere near your overall experience, but I have experience struggling with weight limits in LSAs. One time me and my wife went shopping from Albuquerque to Denver and we even discarded bags into which the purchases were put in the store.

On the other hand, I know that some people do not give a flip, because they themselves are very small. There's a lady based at SAF, Bonnie Mauldin, who flies a CTLS with every gadget known to man. That thing has the useful load below 500 lbs IIRC.


Weight is always going to be a problem in any LSA. My CTSW is one of the lighter ones around with a useful load of 575lb, and I still have to make choices about what to carry. If I load myself and my wife with full fuel, we are right at 1320lb. The two of us and 20 gallons gives us 84lb of bags, and us plus 24 gallons (most common configuration) gives us 50lb of bags, which is sufficient for anything except camping. When I'm solo I can take full fuel and about as much gear as will fit in the airplane (up to 180lb).

But even pilots that weigh 100lb can have issues when the useful load load is 500lb or less. Fuel fuel, a passenger and/or bags can hit that number quickly. It's just the way it is with a 1320lb hard limit enforced by the FAA. It would be very nice if the LSA definition was changed to 1500lb or less, but that is not likely any time soon.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

RickSigler
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby RickSigler » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:15 am

Thanks for the info.

ZAITCEV - Bonnie was my primary flight instructor and I've talked to her about her LSA. She's based at Moriarty. I want the climb rate and also to be able to cruise easily at 12,500. Some of the instrument approaches into Santa Fe require an altitude of at least 11,000.

Mr. Morden - I'm not really worried about the weight limit. I'm 125 LBS and my safety pilot is about 170 LBS. In addition, I've been told that the identical models of the planes are flying in Europe with a weight limit of 1,700 LBS and so the FAA is the problem, not safety.

Rick

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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:29 am

The LSA weight limit in the US is 1320 pounds. It has nothing to do with the FAA and it has nothing to do with what someone else is doing in some other country. If you don't want to be limited by the LSA specificaions, don't buy an LSA.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane;
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea;
Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine;
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

Warmi
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby Warmi » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:10 pm

He was simply making a (valid imho) distinction between being limited by LSA specifications and being constrained by true engineering/design limits.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:24 pm

Moot point. He was also blaming it on the FAA. It's the consensus limits developed by the ASTM Technical Committee. And thanks, I can read what he posted.
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Warmi
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby Warmi » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:55 pm

Moot point indeed , one can kill you while the other one will just end up annoying a few bureaucrats.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

JAM_MAN
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby JAM_MAN » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:59 pm

Do you know the weight of the Bristell configured for IFR or even VFR and well equipped? I know Bristell claims significantly lower weight than comparably built LSAs. I ask because similar metal aircraft e.g. Evektor Harmony fully equipped including ballistic chute weigh about 830 lbs unloaded. For my wife and I, neither large people, this just allows full tanks and a bikini for luggage without violating 1320 lbs. Is the total weight of the Bristell significantly lower? Same question for Sting S4 owners with a glass panel and ADSB in and out. I don't really care if it's safe and performs well a few lbs over gross.

Warmi
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby Warmi » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:12 pm

Sting S4 I have with BRS/TrueTrak Efis/Garmin 796/GDL 39/Garmin Transponder/Radio + backup 6 pack, comes at 847 lbs according to WB I got when I bought it 2 months ago - need to weight it myself to make sure this is indeed correct cause it seems quite heavy for a carbon fiber plane with 912 ULS and a basic glass panel.
Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois

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MrMorden
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:31 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Moot point. He was also blaming it on the FAA. It's the consensus limits developed by the ASTM Technical Committee. And thanks, I can read what he posted.


Apparently you can't read what I wrote. I didn't "blame" anybody. I said the rule is enforced by the FAA. Do you argue with that statement?!?

The limit is in the FARs, so it's not simply an ASTM limit. The FAR was written after consultation with various parties, including manufacturers and the EAA. The FARs were not written to the ASTM standard, the ASTM standard, at least the weight limitation portion, was developed around the proposed LSA rule that later made it into the FARs.

These are just facts, I'm not attack anybody over it. Stop acting like I'm pissing in your cornflakes every time I mention the FAA. It's tiresome.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

TimTaylor
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby TimTaylor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:27 pm

Once again, everything is not about you. I was not responding to anything you posted. Geez.
Commercial Pilot Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane;
Sport Endorsement Airplane Single Engine Sea;
Flight Instructor Airplane Single And Multiengine;
Ground Instructor Advanced Instrument

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MrMorden
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:50 pm

TimTaylor wrote:Once again, everything is not about you. I was not responding to anything you posted. Geez.


It looked to me like the "he" in you post was referring to my post that referenced the FAA. It was unclear. If that was incorrect, I apologize.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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joey4420
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby joey4420 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:10 pm

JAM_MAN wrote:Do you know the weight of the Bristell configured for IFR or even VFR and well equipped? I know Bristell claims significantly lower weight than comparably built LSAs. I ask because similar metal aircraft e.g. Evektor Harmony fully equipped including ballistic chute weigh about 830 lbs unloaded. For my wife and I, neither large people, this just allows full tanks and a bikini for luggage without violating 1320 lbs. Is the total weight of the Bristell significantly lower? Same question for Sting S4 owners with a glass panel and ADSB in and out. I don't really care if it's safe and performs well a few lbs over gross.



Best option is to ask for the W&B sheet of an aircraft that you are interested in equipped the way you want it. Every aircraft will almost always weigh a little bit different. Also the chute if so equipped is like 30lbs IIRC.
Joey
Cincinnati OH
Sport Pilot
Ercoupe N99773


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