New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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RickSigler
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby RickSigler » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:08 pm

The dealer has told me that as long as no modifications have been made, it can be converted back one time. To be honest it might be smart to order it as an ELSA and save the $2k +. The only buyer that would probably want it converted back would be a flight school.

Thanks.

Rick

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FastEddieB
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby FastEddieB » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:01 am

I’d be curious if any airframe manufacturer has signed off on a conversion back to SLSA status after being converted and flown as an ELSA. It is theoretically possible, but it’s hard to see the manufacturer wanting to accept the liability.
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3Dreaming
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:56 am

Yes a experimental for operation of a light sport aircraft can be changed back to the light sport category airworthiness certificate. After looking at the FAA documentation on the procedure, manufacturer approval is not required. Here is a quote from the ctflier site telling where to find the information. "The relevant information can be found in FAA Order 8130.2J, Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft. See the Light Sport Aircraft (LSA) Category. More specifically, see Chapter 9 section 4 that describes "Changing From Experimental to Special LSA Category".
The key here is that it must first be moved from SLSA to experimental to be moved back to SLSA.

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FastEddieB
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby FastEddieB » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:51 am

Interesting. If I am laboring under a misconception let me try to figure out where that misconception came from.
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drseti
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby drseti » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:56 am

Here's the key provision of the FAA Order:

(4) Verify that the aircraft was not altered without the manufacturer approval. The approval must also specify the current applicable revision of FAA-accepted consensus standards in effect at the time the approval was given for the alteration. All manufacturer alteration approvals will be made part of the aircraft's permanent record and documented in the aircraft's records per part 43. If this is not done, the aircraft is not eligible for return to the special light-sport category


In other words, to go back to SLSA, any modifications performed while the aircraft was an ELSA must have been in accordance with an issued LoA from the manufacturer. Since an LoA is not actually required to modify an ELSA, this requirement is unlikely to have been complied with!

Additionally, I consider it unlikely that the manufacturer would even issue an LoA for modification of an SLSA that has been converted to an ELSA, making compliance with that provision difficult at best.
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:31 am

drseti wrote:Here's the key provision of the FAA Order:

(4) Verify that the aircraft was not altered without the manufacturer approval. The approval must also specify the current applicable revision of FAA-accepted consensus standards in effect at the time the approval was given for the alteration. All manufacturer alteration approvals will be made part of the aircraft's permanent record and documented in the aircraft's records per part 43. If this is not done, the aircraft is not eligible for return to the special light-sport category


In other words, to go back to SLSA, any modifications performed while the aircraft was an ELSA must have been in accordance with an issued LoA from the manufacturer. Since an LoA is not actually required to modify an ELSA, this requirement is unlikely to have been complied with!

Additionally, I consider it unlikely that the manufacturer would even issue an LoA for modification of an SLSA that has been converted to an ELSA, making compliance with that provision difficult at best.


Assuming that it has been modified, and assuming that the manufacture would not provide a LoA are both are pretty big assumptions. There are other reasons for going ELSA besides making modifications. If it has not been modified it is a moot point anyway.

My main point was that it can be done, and it doesn't require manufacturer's approval. The other key is that it has to be SLSA first, then switched to ELSA to be able to be switched back. If the first certification is ELSA there is no back to switch to.

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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby FastEddieB » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:42 pm

All very interesting.

Also worth remembering is that while the plane was an ELSA, anyone could have legally worked on it, with zero qualifications.

Again, has anyone actually converted to ELSA, flown and maintained the plane for a while, then successfully converted back, either with or without the manufacturer’s involvement?
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Re: New LSA - Bristell, Sting S4, SportCruiser or ?

Postby 3Dreaming » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:09 pm

I picked up my info from a post on the ctflier site. Here is a link to the thread. http://ctflier.com/topic/4482-elsa-to-s ... ment-66529 The thread starter indicated that this is something new.


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