Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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MrMorden
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby MrMorden » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:01 am

3Dreaming wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:Perhaps he meant "tuned down" so as to not exceed 120kcas at maximum continuous power?


I was adding to my post when you posted. I only said something, because there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of the rules for a LSA. In this case I would bet the engine is not really tuned down, but rather has a artificial RPM limit placed on it limiting max continuous power to meet the 120 kt CAS at Vh limitation.


Probably true, it could also be done with prop pitch limitations or a combination of the two.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

pjdavis
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby pjdavis » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:14 am

Wow, just reading these posts, I am learning new things. Thanks!

foresterpoole
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby foresterpoole » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:41 am

I would consider building but I've got nowhere to physically store it out of the weather. Don't have a shop at the house large enough and all the hangers around here are on a 1-2 year waiting list. I can get a tie-down, but building is not feasible at the moment. I'm learning as well I had no idea you could "tune down" and still qualify! The weight I would think would also be an issue in my case since I would not need the larger heavier power plant. The Jabriu would be more than adequate.
Ed

3Dreaming
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:03 am

MrMorden wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:Perhaps he meant "tuned down" so as to not exceed 120kcas at maximum continuous power?


I was adding to my post when you posted. I only said something, because there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of the rules for a LSA. In this case I would bet the engine is not really tuned down, but rather has a artificial RPM limit placed on it limiting max continuous power to meet the 120 kt CAS at Vh limitation.


Probably true, it could also be done with prop pitch limitations or a combination of the two.


If you take a look at the Jabiru in the Lightning they limit maximum continuous RPM to 2850, and only 15 minutes above that RPM. The Jabiru manual has the max limit as 3300 rpm, and cruise rpm from 2750-3100.

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MrMorden
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby MrMorden » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:24 pm

foresterpoole wrote:I would consider building but I've got nowhere to physically store it out of the weather. Don't have a shop at the house large enough and all the hangers around here are on a 1-2 year waiting list. I can get a tie-down, but building is not feasible at the moment. I'm learning as well I had no idea you could "tune down" and still qualify! The weight I would think would also be an issue in my case since I would not need the larger heavier power plant. The Jabriu would be more than adequate.


Well, I believe any such limits have to be in the operating limitations of the POH, and it can never have been in service above LSA standards. So if you had an experimental which met all performance specs for an LSA except speed, and flew it that way for a while, you can't just "de-tune" it later and have it be LSA legal. It must have continuously met ALL LSA standards from the date of manufacture. With an experimental you built you'd get some wiggle room during phase I testing, as your operating limitations are not set in stone until the end of Phase I. But by the end of Phase I you'd have to have specified any RPM or prop pitch limits.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

foresterpoole
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:28 pm
Location: Alexandria, LA

Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby foresterpoole » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:44 pm

Easy, I had one of those a few years back, not pleasant, I still can't recall about 12 hours after, mad props to pj for even being lucid!!!
Ed

pjdavis
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby pjdavis » Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:54 am

Geez Guys, Just trying to lighten things up.

foresterpoole
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby foresterpoole » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:46 pm

Owe, I was joking around as well, though that procedure knocked me out for a good 1/2 day. Back to the task at hand, I'm learning all kinds of useful info, this board is quite informative!
Ed

eidolon
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby eidolon » Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:18 am

You still have the possibility of buying a "Legacy" LSA - such as one of the older tail draggers or an Ercoupe (the choice I ultimately settled on). They are all getting harder to find and some (such as the Cub) are pretty slow and often pricey. Also, most of them are fabric covered. I finally bought a 'Coupe because it is the only one with a tri-cycle landing gear and it is fairly easy to learn to fly. It is also faster than most Legacy with the 85hp engine. They do come with fabric wings, but the rest is aluminum. There are still quite a few out there, but you have to watch out about the corrosion issue and STC history (if it has ever been "upgraded" for gross beyond 1320, you can never bring it back to LSA standards). The 1946 415C is the most common one people fly in the LSA category. I bought mine for under 20K and flew it home (with my CFI). We had inspected carefully for corrosion and it didn't have any. During my first annual, we found some glitches and some ADs that had not been done. Also, the engine was said to have rust in the cylinder bores, so I wound up spending for an overhauled one. (Still not sure I needed that, since the engine and oil pressure seemed fine before.) That all added to the cost so I now have about $40K invested, but the plane flies well and now has all the basic avionics goodies needed for VFR cross country flights (radio, transponder, GPS). With the 'Coupes very predictable landing characteristics, and much less to worry about with cross-wind landings, passing my check ride was easy. I often wish I had bought one earlier in my training cycle - as my instructor advised.

HAPPYDAN
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby HAPPYDAN » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:43 am

Regarding the Ercoupe - And you can fly with the canopy open which just plain HAS to be cool (literally, depending on the weather)!

3Dreaming
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:01 am

Most of the 415C's have windows that slide down the side into the fuselage, and yes it can be flown with them open.

foresterpoole
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby foresterpoole » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:50 pm

Is it true that the ercoupe has no rudder peddles????
Ed

3Dreaming
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:50 pm

foresterpoole wrote:Is it true that the ercoupe has no rudder peddles????


All that are light sport did not originally have rudder pedals. Some were however modified with the addition of pedals at a later date.

eidolon
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Re: Dearth of used S-LSA's for sale

Postby eidolon » Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:02 pm

Mine has no rudder pedals. You steer with the yoke like a car. As for cross wind landings, the plane worries about those - up to about 21 kts. Some 'coupers claim it will handle more, but I have never pushed it that far. I find this feature particularly comforting when you have gusty or variable windy conditions. The aircraft is designed with beefy mains, cantilevered to the rear and with a CG that is well forward of the pilot. This design enables it to land in a crab from which it rights itself quickly. It does have rudders (2, actually) that are interconnected with ailerons to accomplish coordinated flight. My only complaints with the design is the abysmal glide ratio (about 5 to 1 near as I can tell) and mediocre speed (about 100 kts cruise with the right prop and the 85HP engine).


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