TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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WIKI WIKI
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby WIKI WIKI » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:08 am

Ok
Last edited by WIKI WIKI on Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby azsportpilot » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:17 pm

WIKI WIKI wrote:BTW, the plane he is trying to sell on Barnstormers cant be imported to the US as it has been registered in another country. FAA rule.


please check you source for this statement.... Importing is a pain in the a** but not illegal, in fact it is very common, so common that the AOPA has a great article about how to navigate the "red tape"

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safet ... g-aircraft
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby azsportpilot » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:22 pm

In order for me to want the headache of importation there would have to be a significant savings

this one might qualify..... a savings of $33,500 over new.... just 140 hours

2015TL 3000 SIRIUS LOWEST COST • $84,500 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • 2015 TL SIRIUS. BEST DEAL EVER! • 2015 TL SIRIUS $84,500 USD GUARANTEED! NO GIMMICK. with 140 frame and engine time Rotax 912ULS GARMIN GTR 200, GARMIN G3x Touch Display 10.6, GARMIN Transponder GTX 23 mode S, GARMIN AUTOPILOT, Strobe LED lights, position, landing, leather interior, 800 MILES RANGE AT 110KTS, backup instruments, BRS recovery system. NEW 2017 TL 3000 SIRIUS or Sting S4 is available with this same equipment at the cost of $118,000 USD delivered to your location • tell: 586-725-5661 Distributor for TL Ultralight • Contact tl-lightsportaircraft web • Contact Eugene P. Dworecki - TL LSA SALES , Owner - located Barrie, ON Canada • Telephone: 7058171666 . 5862755661 . • Posted March 2, 2017 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Pictures

based on your review of this dealer I would only buy cash and onsite, leave with the plane etc.... this does not sound like the kind of dealer that I would want holding my $84,500
Last edited by azsportpilot on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby 3Dreaming » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:43 pm

azsportpilot wrote:
WIKI WIKI wrote:BTW, the plane he is trying to sell on Barnstormers cant be imported to the US as it has been registered in another country. FAA rule.


please check you source for this statement.... Importing is a pain in the a** but not illegal, in fact it is very common, so common that the AOPA has a great article about how to navigate the "red tape"

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safet ... g-aircraft


Importing is one thing, but if it has had an airworthiness certificate issued in another country then it can not be registered as a SLSA here in the US.
The best you could hope for is to register it in the experimental exhibition category.

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby azsportpilot » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:56 pm

I was aware that SLSA was not possible but I was under the impression that E-AB or maybe even ELSA would be doable

exhibition would be very limiting

the AOPA gives the impression that this is almost routine.... I guess maybe it is for certified planes, many years ago I knew a guy who brought a Cessna 180 in from Canada without a hitch.
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby drseti » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:49 am

I think the issue has to do with how the plane was registered in Canada. They don't have an SLSA or ELSA category. If the plane received a Standard Category a/w certificate in Canada, that's how it would have to be imported and registeted here. If it was E/AB in Canada, that's what it would be here.
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby Rainstorm » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:32 am

I own a P2008 with the Rotax 912iS engine with Sport Upgrade and generator upgrade, 3 bladed prop., Night and LED package, leather, dual Garmin G3X and a third EFIS (Integra 6624) with full checklists (audible and touch check), Garmin Autopilot, GDL 69A, Garmin Connext, ADS B in and out and a host of other options way too numerous to list, essentially everything. It weighs in at 835 lbs. Support has been great and the Sport Package and Generator upgrade were accomplished by Rotax at no charge with one work week downtime. I've owner various Cessna's, Bonanza's (including a G36), a Baron, Commander, etc. The 912is is great, no float adjustments, easy starts, higher power, lower fuel burn.

The build quality of the Tecnam is as good as any factory airplane I have ever owned and much better than everything but the Beechcraft and is equal to them. The climate control works well, it doesn't leak, it's quiet, flies like a dream, can consistently cruise at 120Kts and climbs out a 100Kts. We use the iPhone and iPad to upload flight plans and as extra displays (not that they're needed for that as three is plenty). Fuel burn is consistently below 4gph and it will settle in at 3.2-3.5 for most trips. We live in the mountain west and climbing out an enroute climbs always achieve at least 800 fpm and typically over 1000.

I never expected an LSA to feel and perform like a high end factory airplane but this one does. It is expensive but not considering the price of anything near the quality and performance. We have friends with more bare bones LSA's and they use duct tape to seal leaks (CT's), have to use funky straps to tie it down, the seats don't recline and aren't comfortable, but the performance is not as good as the P2008. The headroom in the P2008 is great even for a tall guy with headsets. Even the fuel gauges work accurately in the P2008 unlike most planes. The useful load as equipped is 485lbs but it carries that without drama, likely due to it's higher certified weight for the same airplane in Europe, nice safety margin to have.

I've read a bunch of reviews on the P2008, most complain about the cost and weight. It's worth it and carries the weight. If you want an LSA to be a real traveller in comfort this one is great.

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby Wm.Ince » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:45 pm

Rainstorm wrote:I own a P2008 with the Rotax 912iS engine with Sport Upgrade and generator upgrade, 3 bladed prop., Night and LED package, leather, dual Garmin G3X and a third EFIS (Integra 6624) with full checklists (audible and touch check), Garmin Autopilot, GDL 69A, Garmin Connext, ADS B in and out and a host of other options way too numerous to list, essentially everything. It weighs in at 835 lbs. Support has been great and the Sport Package and Generator upgrade were accomplished by Rotax at no charge with one work week downtime. I've owner various Cessna's, Bonanza's (including a G36), a Baron, Commander, etc. The 912is is great, no float adjustments, easy starts, higher power, lower fuel burn.

The build quality of the Tecnam is as good as any factory airplane I have ever owned and much better than everything but the Beechcraft and is equal to them. The climate control works well, it doesn't leak, it's quiet, flies like a dream, can consistently cruise at 120Kts and climbs out a 100Kts. We use the iPhone and iPad to upload flight plans and as extra displays (not that they're needed for that as three is plenty). Fuel burn is consistently below 4gph and it will settle in at 3.2-3.5 for most trips. We live in the mountain west and climbing out an enroute climbs always achieve at least 800 fpm and typically over 1000.

I never expected an LSA to feel and perform like a high end factory airplane but this one does. It is expensive but not considering the price of anything near the quality and performance. We have friends with more bare bones LSA's and they use duct tape to seal leaks (CT's), have to use funky straps to tie it down, the seats don't recline and aren't comfortable, but the performance is not as good as the P2008. The headroom in the P2008 is great even for a tall guy with headsets. Even the fuel gauges work accurately in the P2008 unlike most planes. The useful load as equipped is 485lbs but it carries that without drama, likely due to it's higher certified weight for the same airplane in Europe, nice safety margin to have.

I've read a bunch of reviews on the P2008, most complain about the cost and weight. It's worth it and carries the weight. If you want an LSA to be a real traveller in comfort this one is great.

Too heavy!
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby Rainstorm » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:09 pm

I don't think it's too heavy? Useful load is 485# which with 2 200# adults leaves 85# or 3.5 hours of fuel at 4gph which is about the highest average we ever see on the 9i2iS. To be sure I would love double that but for an LSA that is extremely high quality, supportable, flies like a dream and has a cockpit like that in a new personal jet (synthectic vision, etc) it seems pretty respectable. That said, if planes were free I'd be in a turboprop. BTW, if you do the math and add up the equipment what LSA is lighter?

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby Wm.Ince » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:21 pm

Rainstorm wrote:. . . "what LSA is lighter?" . . .

My 2006 CTSW.
49 inches of shoulder room, dual Dynon SkyView displays, Dynon autopilot and a usable load of 571.
Empty weight 749.

That's a difference of 86 lbs., which is the equivalent of 14 gals of fuel.
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby Rainstorm » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:34 pm

I think the CT's have gained weight since then, I'll check again but when I looked at ordering last year the CT's were coming in at the same weight. The weight of the 912is adds to the P2008 but it makes up for it in fuel burn.

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby Rainstorm » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:37 pm

The closest configuration I could book, literally item for item was a CTSI from their website. It booked at 377 kg (831lbs), and over $183K Euros or $227.3K so it is essentially the same weight and about 10K more costly than the Tecnam. I am sure it is an outstanding aircraft but I've only the flown the P2008 of the two of them and I can vouch that the P2008 is a good choice as I'm sure the CT is. The CT comes with a parachute and mine is provisioned for it and it would be another 7.5K to add. It is one of the things I'm on the fence on but will likely add since my range profile isn't 800nm so I don't need full fuel. Be interesting to see what the consensus on adding the parachute is. For me it is not cost but resale, will the lower gross drive off buyers. In a more reasonable load of a 200# pilot and 120# passenger I have lots of headroom. I know people hate hearing this but the P2008 is certified for over 200# more gross weight in Europe with even higher numbers being considered in the UK. This gives confidence in loading it right up to the LSA gross weight knowing the gear and systems are designed for and tested to (it is certified in Europe) to significantly increased loads. At any rate, if you price any of the newer LSA's the price points for equally equipped planes and weights are all converging. For resale I'd want a Tecnam or CT due to the volume of planes out there flying and the rapidly available parts. I'm hoping to be able to fly with an CTSi soon and trade off and really feel what the planes fly like. I'm really tall and don't like the spar above bopping my head in the CT but maybe that's improved on the CTSi. In any event, thoughts on adding the parachute (and yes I know the CT comes with one std but that would just level the price to the CT level, and really I like all things that fly, except crows :)

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:44 pm

Rainstorm, what an appropriate user name. For your first post you came in kind of hard trying to rain on other's parade. While there is no doubt that the P2008 is a good airplane. There was no need to start slamming on other models of LSA. They all have their good points and bad.

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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:00 pm

The Tecnam is too heavy without a chute. I would not add one.
Last edited by TimTaylor on Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TL3000 Sirius vs Tecnam P2008

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Never mind.
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