Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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Cluemeister
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Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Cluemeister » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:34 pm

I saw this aircraft at Sebring. Reminded me of the Jabiru a little with its storage capabilities. But it also has a chute, which the Jabiru lacks. Anyone have one, or flown one, or know anything about this specific model?

jake
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby jake » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:51 pm

I have flown it.

Cluemeister
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Cluemeister » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:17 pm

Hey Jake, I did read your previous comments a few years ago, thank you. I guess I'm real curious wondering how many are flying in the US?

jake
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby jake » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:23 pm

Looks like there are 10 on the FAA registry.
The Sirius has a Yoke instead of a stick. Those who are used to a Cessna may prefer this.
Definitely looks a lot like a small Cessna high wing.

Mark

Nomore767
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:59 pm

I had a demo lined up at Sebring a couple of years ago, as well as the Sting, but didn't get to fly either due to weather.

As Jake says it does remind me a lot of Cessna especially from a little way off. I like that the manufacturer offers a low wing LSA as well as a low wing to allow for preference. I found the Jabiru stick odd but The Sirius has a yoke.

As with all LSAs the devil is in the weight. The manufacturer brochure offers an empty weight of 760 with a useful load of 560 both of which they say 'varies'. Add a chute and there's maybe an extra 25 lbs (?).

I really like the 34 gallon fuel capacity so for me usually flying alone I could easily fly non-stop to visit family in PA from SC although I would still stop in Suffolk where they have 93 Mogas at the pump. That would allow me to carry auto gas in the tanks to PA and back to Suffolk on the way back. Yeah I could use 100LL and it's a minor point. At my weight I could also carry full 75lbs of baggage with room to spare.

However, the brochure specs require some math before setting off with two passengers and full gas.
Say it was me and my wife and say 50 lbs of bags. Full fuel of 204 lbs brings the empty weight to 664lbs . That's assuming the lowest brochure weight (which varies) and doesn't include the chute weight.
To bring the load down to max LSA weight of 1320 and assuming here the brochure empty weight of 560 I have to lose 104 lbs of fuel ( cos Momma wants all of her stuff to go!). That means max fuel 17 gallons or exactly half the total fuel capacity. Not quite what the brochure sYs unless you're solo.

To compare with the RV-12 that I bought flying with a 200lb passenger and 35-50 lbs of bags I can take 20 gallons which is the RV's max fuel anyway so on a cross country with a passenger and some bags there's no difference.
Vans doesn't offer a chute but if I added it on the Sirius I'd have to drop another 4-5 gallons depending on the weight of the chute package again not totally sure of the chutes final weight but either way I'd have less fuel.

Where there Sirius would be BETTER for ME flying SOLO compared to the RV-12 is being able to carry full fuel and fly max range (if my bladder can hold it!).

This kind of weight computation for both solo and carrying a passenger and bags is pretty typical of most LSAs and bears consideration when evaluating an LSA and defining your personal flying 'mission'.

Last point...even though I didn't fly it I did sit in it and I found I had to bend down to see out under the wing and out below. The only high wing LSA that I've flown that was much better than this and I didn't have have to stoop was the Skycatcher which has the best visibility to me for a high wing.

I have to say I really quite liked the Sirius, and the Sting for that matter.

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dstclair
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby dstclair » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:38 am

Minor follow-up on the good description of the Sirius -- all TL-Ultralights come equipped with a chute and it is not an option so the empty weights are inclusive of that weight. That being said, I know new Sting S54s are coming in around 820-830lbs and I would guess the same for the Sirius. YMMV.
dave

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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:29 am

Nomore767,

From your earlier post and other post you have made it seems that you are against airplanes that can't carry full fuel and 2 people. Is having a small fuel tank that makes it so you don't have to do any math on how much fuel you can carry really that important?

Nomore767
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:07 am

3Dreaming wrote:Nomore767,

From your earlier post and other post you have made it seems that you are against airplanes that can't carry full fuel and 2 people. Is having a small fuel tank that makes it so you don't have to do any math on how much fuel you can carry really that important?


Actually, my point has always been that many potential customers have read the brochure and had the salesman repeat that the plane carries enough fuel to fly 6-7 hours. Until you crunch the numbers this can be very misleading and , in my experience, has lead to frustration and disappointment when the new owner realizes he can't carry two people, bags and full fuel. The 'mission' is limited in this regard but then enhanced for flying solo in that the pilot can take advantage of the bigger fuel capacity.

I believe I've pointed this out before and earlier said that my RV isn't so bad with two people and bags BECAUSE of a smaller (20 gallons) tank BUT is limited solo when I would welcome a larger fuel capacity and wouldn't be limited by the extra weight. I'd welcome the option to carry 24 or 30 gallons but I'm happy nonetheless.

One poster in the past repeatedly talked about the fact that his LSA had 30 gallon tanks versus the 20 gallons on the RV12 and was thus superior. However, when you crunched his own numbers for his flight with 2 folks and bags it turned out that the max fuel he could actually carry without going overweight, in that scenario was only 17 gallons. Thus, his LSA range in that scenario was actually less than the RV which he was disparaging. For ME it's not a pissing contest for bragging rights, as it was for him, but to point out that his sloppy math and careless approach to weight and balance and fuel was inaccurate. It also pointed out how misleading it was to tout the brochure and say it could fly for 6-7 hours when in fact it only could with one passenger. Like it or not, its a fact and good to know before you plonk down a lot of money.

I've spoken with several new LSA owners that bought heavier models with larger fuel tanks which couldn't carry two people, bags and full fuel without flying overweight.
In fact I met one Skycatcher guy and another Tecnam guy who both regularly were flying well over gross weight and who both subsequently sold their planes because of their frustrations with weight.

As we know weight is an important factor, more so with LSAs, and many new folks often haven't considered this before contemplating or buying a new LSA.

It's not about having a big or small fuel tank ( so size doesn't always matter!) but it IS important to realize that bigger fuel tanks, higher empty weights and adding heAvier, and more expensive, options can impact the 'mission'.
I think I've consistently included this aspect when talking about many different LSAs, including my own.
Last edited by Nomore767 on Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jack Tyler
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Jack Tyler » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:35 am

FWIW I've heard a pretty consistent message from Howard regarding LSA MTOW and the 'real world' practicalities of these limited LSA useful loads. And I agree with the main point: They took advantage of the vacuum bagging & composite cored technology to provide for large fuel tanks, giving the pilot more options. The issue of course is that sales folks talk about the options without describing the trade-offs. This transfers over to all the avionics and other treatment options, as well. I saw one of these 3000 Sirius a/c at S'nF (two?) years ago and it was decked out with all kinds of spiffy 'extras'. I don't think it would carry the salesman I talked to and full fuel.

Clue, one of these was based at my airport for a while. I didn't fly it but I did leave several drool marks behind and was very impressed. Howard's comment about visibility is worth considering. I don't know his height but I'm 6' with a proportional body and I found 'scrunching' to see well being a common issue with many LSA high wings, as well.
Jack
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Nomore767
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:48 am

Jack,

I'm 5'8". For a high wing LSA I found the Skycatcher to have pretty good visibility over say the Remos, Tecnam, and CTLS that I flew. The latter airplanes had my eye level right along the underside of the wing which I didn't like as much.

I have to say that I really liked the Sting and the Sirius for quality and looks. The Sirius compares to the Jabiru which I also was unable to demo due to weather.

I don't thinks there's an LSA that I don't like but it's well worth delving into the specs when contemplating a buy once you've been able to decide on the ''mission' in order to try and get the best 'fit', in my opinion.

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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby SportPilot » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:54 am

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cluemeister
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Cluemeister » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:33 pm

Great points all. One things for certain. Each new generation of LSA gets a little heavier. I think most all of the top sellers are over 800 empty weight, many in the mid to upper 800's. I think the Carbon Cub is over 900 if I'm not mistaken. Sport cruiser about 840. The CTSW started in the low 700's, and now two generations later the CTLSi is in the low to mid 800's empty weight.

The RV 12 is an exception, and that's a nice rig, and was originally my first choice. For me though, I want a chute, and didn't like the gas tank in the cabin. So for now it's not on my short list. :)

I can't see LSA getting lighter. I'm not sure what the breaking point will be, dollar or weight wise!

Nomore767
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:56 pm

Cluemeister wrote:Great points all. One things for certain. Each new generation of LSA gets a little heavier. I think most all of the top sellers are over 800 empty weight, many in the mid to upper 800's. I think the Carbon Cub is over 900 if I'm not mistaken. Sport cruiser about 840. The CTSW started in the low 700's, and now two generations later the CTLSi is in the low to mid 800's empty weight.

The RV 12 is an exception, and that's a nice rig, and was originally my first choice. For me though, I want a chute, and didn't like the gas tank in the cabin. So for now it's not on my short list. :)

I can't see LSA getting lighter. I'm not sure what the breaking point will be, dollar or weight wise!


The Rans S19 Venterra is very similar to the RV-12 and I 'think' it's being sold now as an SLSA as well as a kit. Though it looks very similar differences with the RV-12 are fixed wings, and fuel tanks in the wings (24 total, 22 useable I believe). The canopy slides open and it has flaps and aileron whilst the RV has flaperons.

Not sure about the weights but the basic price is $165k plus paint and more options. The RV-12 SLSA is about $128k with about all the options including premium paint.

Not sure if Rans offers a chute either. BTW the latest issue of Flying has an article on the chute, how it works and what it's like to ride the plane down after an inflight deployment.

Cluemeister
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Cluemeister » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:35 pm

NoMore, do you have a link to that chute story? Thanks!

Nomore767
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Re: Any Tl-3000 Sirius owners out there?

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:03 pm

It's in my latest copy of Flying that came in the mail the other day.

April 2016.


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