LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

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FastEddieB
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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby FastEddieB » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:01 am

MrMorden wrote:
Well, my degree is from Georgia. ;)


Well, I reckon that there degree ain't no worser than the Professor's!
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comperini
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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby comperini » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:16 pm

What's your take on 61.303(b) then?


SportPilot wrote:This is an obviously different standard than passing a 3rd class medical. After all these years, why do we still have to explain this to some people? Get over it.

It's also why, up until now, operating under this different medical standard is limited to LSA, daytime, VFR. Because of the demonstrated success, we are on the verge of having this medical standard applied to all Private Pilot privileges.


§61.53 Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.

(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in §61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

(c) Operations requiring a medical certificate or a U.S. driver's license. For operations provided for in §61.23(c), a person must meet the provisions of—


(2) Paragraph (b) of this section if that person holds a U.S. driver's license.
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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:38 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby BrianL99 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:19 pm

comperini wrote:What's your take on 61.303(b) then?





Which was my point, exactly.

If you know you can't pass a 3rd Class Medical, you are not eligible to exercise LSA privileges, either.

I don't even thing it's the least bit ambiguous.

Here's another discussion on the subject of 61.303(b) and Sport Pilots.

http://sportpilottalk.com/archive.php?f=28&t=2268

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:27 pm

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:28 pm

BrianL99 wrote:If you know you can't pass a 3rd Class Medical, you are not eligible to exercise LSA privileges, either.


Where does it say that?

I have no idea whether I could pass a 3rd Class Medical right now, but I'm still flying as a Light Sport pilot.

What law am I breaking?

I will state unequivocally that I do not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make me unable to operate my aircraft in a safe manner. I've been doing so successfully for four or five years, and have grounded myself twice when I had reason to know I was unable to operate my aircraft in a safe manner for the duration of the ailment.

I think you've latched onto an indefensible interpretation of 61.303. If they meant "...and must be able to pass a Third Class Medical" or "Have no condition that would preclude them obtaining a Third Class Medical", it would have been very easy for them to spell that out. They chose not to.

It's very significant that they chose very different, and more subjective language.
Last edited by FastEddieB on Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:32 pm

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:38 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:41 pm

SportPilot wrote:Eddie, you attributed that quote to the wrong person.


Thanks. Fixed.
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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:13 pm

BrianL99 wrote:
comperini wrote:What's your take on 61.303(b) then?





Which was my point, exactly.

If you know you can't pass a 3rd Class Medical, you are not eligible to exercise LSA privileges, either.

I don't even thing it's the least bit ambiguous.

Here's another discussion on the subject of 61.303(b) and Sport Pilots.

archive.php?f=28&t=2268


IMO, 61.303 (b) was just the FAA's way of covering their butt. The FAA was never going to create a regulation stating someone they said was not in good enough condition to pass a FAA medical were now safe to fly. What the regulation basically says is if you have ever applied for a medical it had to expire in good standing to use a driver's license to act as PIC as a sport pilot.

What 4. says is that you not have any condition that would keep you from safely flying a LSA, not a condition that keeps you from getting a FAA medical.

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:53 pm

There is a medical requirement for each level of pilot certificate. For sport pilot it's possessing a valid state DL and meeting it's particular medical requirement.

The vision requirement for a !st Class medical for ATP/CPL is 20/20 or better correctable for each eye separately. For a 3rd class its 20/40 correctable for each eye separately.

So if my vision is at best 20/40 corrected does that mean I know that I couldn't pass a 1st class medical?

For my state's DL the vision is 20/70 correctable. If my vision is at best 20/70 and I meet the requirement for my state and I'm issued a DL then I can legally fly as a sport pilot whilst I know that I wouldn't meet the 3rd class vision standard. If I nonetheless applied for the 3rd class, and was then denied because of the vision standard this now disqualifies me from flying as a sport pilot by rule.

If I'm happy flying as a sport pilot and have a valid state DL then I can fly legally. If I wanted to fly as a PPL and took the medical and didn't meet the vision standard then I've burned my bridges because I can no longer fly either.

The current legal requirement for me to fly as a PPL is a 3rd class medical. The advantage to me of applying for a 3rd class medical whilst continuing a to fly sport is zero, and in fact possibly catastrophic if I were to be denied. If I wasn't denied and my vision is good enough again what is the advantage to flying as a sport pilot only but with a 3rd class medical? It does open up the opportunity to begin PPL training but if I'm perfectly happy as a sport pilot why would I risk it?

To some this offers the specter of flying by getting a 'back-door medical' or by implying they knowingly have some devastating medical condition whereas it could be simply something like the vision requirement. Of course there could BE a big medical issue but then that is addressed in the medical rule for sport pilots who 'know of a condition which would prevent them from safely operating a light sport aircraft' or words to that effect.

Flying with a DL also means that your driving behavior also requires no DUIs etc. A suspension because of this also revokes your sport flying privilege . Under PBOR 2 you likewise need to maintain a valid DL, despite the changes and reforms proposed.

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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby drseti » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:26 pm

Good summary, Howard. Before my cataract surgery, I could no longer have passed another 2nd class medical exam due to vision requirements, so I let it lapse down to 3rd class. By the time that second year had passed, I had already begun flying LSAs, and found the Sport Pilot restrictions to be a non-issue, due to my modified mission requirements. So, I let the 3rd Class expire, and have continued to fly with a Driver's License. I've subsequently had artificial inter-ocular lens implants, and could now pass the 1st Class vision requirements, but that's irrelevant. If PBoR2 goes through as currently proposed, it will have absolutely no impact on me, since I will continue to fly LSA with a DL. I suspect that is the case for most of us on this forum who still hold higher than SP ratings, and once held an FAA medical certificate.
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Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby MrMorden » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:49 pm

SportPilot wrote:Most Sport Pilots don't even know what a 3rd class medical is.


We know, and quietly laugh at those who need them. 8)
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