LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

Moderator: drseti

3Dreaming
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:30 am

Nomore767 wrote: Under the new PBOR2 if you have a medical issued within last 10 years you don't need a new medical/SI and will just have to visit with your physician every 4 years, log it in your flying records, and complete the on-line review of medical issues every 2 years.



Someone earlier in this thread stated that there is a difference between an LSA and being a sport pilot. A PPL can fly a light sport to the extent that its properly equipped e.g.. lights for night VFR. It isn't equipped for IMC as is, presumably, your Liberty XL2.
So If you wish to continue flying where you can occasionally 'break through a layer' of IMC stay where you are. If you don't want to take advantage of the new PBOR 2 changes, you can fly an LSA as a sport pilot. You simply can't fly through a layer under IMC.


Two thing that I think are worth correcting.

1. It is not when your medical was issued, but rather when it expired that determines compliance that way PBOR2 is proposed. So if it went into law today as long as your medical had not expired on 10/31/2005 or before you would be OK. If a person was under 40 when their last medical was issued, it could have been issued as far back as November 2002.

2. LSA cuts a broad swath, it covers standard, primary, experimental AB, experimental LSA, and SLSA. Only SLSA built after a certain date in 2010 are prohibited from flying in IMC. SLSA prior to this could be flown in IMC if it was not prohibited by the manufacturer, and they had all the required equipment and test. All other LSA simply must meet the requirements of CFR 91.205.

Nomore767
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:39 am

3Dreaming wrote:
Nomore767 wrote: Under the new PBOR2 if you have a medical issued within last 10 years you don't need a new medical/SI and will just have to visit with your physician every 4 years, log it in your flying records, and complete the on-line review of medical issues every 2 years.



Someone earlier in this thread stated that there is a difference between an LSA and being a sport pilot. A PPL can fly a light sport to the extent that its properly equipped e.g.. lights for night VFR. It isn't equipped for IMC as is, presumably, your Liberty XL2.
So If you wish to continue flying where you can occasionally 'break through a layer' of IMC stay where you are. If you don't want to take advantage of the new PBOR 2 changes, you can fly an LSA as a sport pilot. You simply can't fly through a layer under IMC.


Two thing that I think are worth correcting.

1. It is not when your medical was issued, but rather when it expired that determines compliance that way PBOR2 is proposed. So if it went into law today as long as your medical had not expired on 10/31/2005 or before you would be OK. If a person was under 40 when their last medical was issued, it could have been issued as far back as November 2002.

2. LSA cuts a broad swath, it covers standard, primary, experimental AB, experimental LSA, and SLSA. Only SLSA built after a certain date in 2010 are prohibited from flying in IMC. SLSA prior to this could be flown in IMC if it was not prohibited by the manufacturer, and they had all the required equipment and test. All other LSA simply must meet the requirements of CFR 91.205.


Good points!

However, even if the LSA can fly under IMC the sport pilot couldn't unless he was a PPL with an IR. In this example the poster says he already has an XL2 which is similar, though heavier, than an LSA, is certified to fly IMC and so is he…and the upcoming PBOR 2 changes would be more relaxed for someone like him so why would he need to change?

If he develops a serious medical condition he's likely not going to able to fly anything, perhaps not even an LSA. If he applied and was denied/revoked then sport pilot option is removed. Plus even if the LSA is IMC capable he wouldn't be legal as a sport pilot.

Sounds like he is saying that if he develops a medical condition that prevents him from flying PPL/IR then he would like to drop into sport flying and fly IMC. I don't see how this is possible.

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2130
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby FastEddieB » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:44 am

Nomore767 wrote:
Under the new PBOR2 if you have a medical issued within last 10 years you don't need a new medical/SI...


Is it based on the date issued, or the date it was last valid, ie "held"?

I thought it was the latter.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
FastEddieB@mac.com

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:07 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BrianL99
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby BrianL99 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:30 pm

SportPilot wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:
Nomore767 wrote:
Under the new PBOR2 if you have a medical issued within last 10 years you don't need a new medical/SI...


Is it based on the date issued, or the date it was last valid, ie "held"?

I thought it was the latter.
Based on the current wording of the bill, it is based on the last day you held an active medical, not when it was issued. My last medical was dated 5/25/2004. It expired at midnight 5/31/2006. I am good through 5/31/2016.

If President Obama signs the bill into law on 5/31/2016 or sooner, I am covered. If he signs it into law 6/1/2016 or later, it's LSA for me.


I have to ask the obvious question ... what difference does it make?

If you can't pass a Medical, are you legal to fly an LSA? Not "can you fly one", but are you "legal to fly one".
Last edited by BrianL99 on Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:34 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:41 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:50 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

3Dreaming
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby 3Dreaming » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:04 pm

Nomore767 wrote:
3Dreaming wrote:
Nomore767 wrote: Under the new PBOR2 if you have a medical issued within last 10 years you don't need a new medical/SI and will just have to visit with your physician every 4 years, log it in your flying records, and complete the on-line review of medical issues every 2 years.



Someone earlier in this thread stated that there is a difference between an LSA and being a sport pilot. A PPL can fly a light sport to the extent that its properly equipped e.g.. lights for night VFR. It isn't equipped for IMC as is, presumably, your Liberty XL2.
So If you wish to continue flying where you can occasionally 'break through a layer' of IMC stay where you are. If you don't want to take advantage of the new PBOR 2 changes, you can fly an LSA as a sport pilot. You simply can't fly through a layer under IMC.


Two thing that I think are worth correcting.

1. It is not when your medical was issued, but rather when it expired that determines compliance that way PBOR2 is proposed. So if it went into law today as long as your medical had not expired on 10/31/2005 or before you would be OK. If a person was under 40 when their last medical was issued, it could have been issued as far back as November 2002.

2. LSA cuts a broad swath, it covers standard, primary, experimental AB, experimental LSA, and SLSA. Only SLSA built after a certain date in 2010 are prohibited from flying in IMC. SLSA prior to this could be flown in IMC if it was not prohibited by the manufacturer, and they had all the required equipment and test. All other LSA simply must meet the requirements of CFR 91.205.


Good points!

However, even if the LSA can fly under IMC the sport pilot couldn't unless he was a PPL with an IR. In this example the poster says he already has an XL2 which is similar, though heavier, than an LSA, is certified to fly IMC and so is he…and the upcoming PBOR 2 changes would be more relaxed for someone like him so why would he need to change?

If he develops a serious medical condition he's likely not going to able to fly anything, perhaps not even an LSA. If he applied and was denied/revoked then sport pilot option is removed. Plus even if the LSA is IMC capable he wouldn't be legal as a sport pilot.

Sounds like he is saying that if he develops a medical condition that prevents him from flying PPL/IR then he would like to drop into sport flying and fly IMC. I don't see how this is possible.


What pilot certificate you must hold or what you do in a airplane is not defined by the airplane you are flying, but what you want to do in it.
What he said is he wished he had a LSA that he could fly IFR under private pilot privileges, and then switch to sport pilot privileges and no IFR if the need arose.

BrianL99
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby BrianL99 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:44 pm

SportPilot wrote:
BrianL99 wrote:
SportPilot wrote:
If you can't pass a Medical, are you legal to fly an LSA? No "can you fly one", but are you "legal to fly one".
You don't need to be able to pass a Medical to be legal to fly an LSA. Read the requirements.



Can you give me an example of a condition that would disqualify you for a 3rd Class Medical, but wouldn't prevent you from exercising Sport Pilot privileges?

SportPilot
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby SportPilot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:07 pm

.......
Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5215
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby drseti » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:01 pm

BrianL99 wrote:Can you give me an example of a condition that would disqualify you for a 3rd Class Medical, but wouldn't prevent you from exercising Sport Pilot privileges?


Insulin-dependent diabetes. Generally, a special issuance medical will not be granted (so don't even try to apply!), but if well regulated, this condition would not prevent one from exercising Sport Pilot privileges. Of course, my insulin-dependent students and graduates are counseled to carry an injectable dose when flying, and granola bars or similar snacks in case their blood sugar plummets, and tend to self-monitor very closely. Consultation with one's personal physician is very important here.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

User avatar
FastEddieB
Posts: 2130
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby FastEddieB » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:35 am

BrianL99 wrote:Can you give me an example of a condition that would disqualify you for a 3rd Class Medical, but wouldn't prevent you from exercising Sport Pilot privileges?


Without getting into specifics, kidney stones below a certain size and in relatively benign locations.

The SI every year was an expensive PITA, and could lead to overtreatment, and a lot of anxiety waiting for the FAA to give its papal dispensation.

Now, my urologist telling me, "Should not be a problem" is sufficient. And if and when treatment is called for, the decision and timing are mine.

And, in consultation with my urologist, I'm intelligent and rational enough to ground myself if things ever looked "iffy". So far, the overall Light Sport experiment has shown that this level of self-appraisal does not seem to lead to increased risk of problems in flight.
Fast Eddie B.

Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA

FastEddieB@mac.com

Jack Tyler
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:49 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby Jack Tyler » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:54 am

Interesting, educational answers to the posed question.

Another dimension to this is the lessened down time from flying when recovering from a medical treatment. Seeing Eddie's post reminded me of his wife's joint replacement. Were she a PPL under this proposal, she could legally fly again as soon as her surgeon and/or GP and she felt she was capable of doing so safely. I'll wager a PPL with a 3rd class medical wouldn't be back in the cockpit so quickly.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: LSA Sting to be certified for IFR in IMC

Postby MrMorden » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:01 am

BrianL99 wrote:Can you give me an example of a condition that would disqualify you for a 3rd Class Medical, but wouldn't prevent you from exercising Sport Pilot privileges?


The real answer is: "Any condition for which you have consulted with your personal physician(s), and both you and they agree that you can safely operate an LSA."

If you and your doctor both agree that you can safely fly an LSA, you are within the scope of the regulations. There is no set of disqualifying conditions for Light Sport privileges as there is for a third class medical. Instead it's left for the pilot to exercise reasonable judgment in consultation with his/her physician(s).

Now, if you are taking Vicodin, can't see fifty feet, and are prone to fainting spells, the FAA is going to have a field day with you when you crash. But then again, any doc agrees you are safe to fly under those circumstances needs a good slap.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA


Return to “Light Sport Aircraft”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests