Jack Tyler wrote:I enjoyed reading Howard's update - principally - for two reasons: he highlighted the pleasure that this new cockpit technology can bring to a pilot's experience, and he illustrated one way flying can be affordable (altho' we'll have to forget the upfront cost he incurred to get him there). I wonder if we pilots & a/c owners don't moan and fuss about the changing nature of GA more than is warranted and ignore the advances & benefits we enjoy for the same reasons. Sure seems that way to me.
For those still dabbing a toe in recreational flying waters, let me broaden Howard's illustration. I fly a Part 23 a/c built in 1979 by Gulfstream in Savannah, GA. It's a simple 4-place, fixed gear/fixed prop aircraft. It cost ~40% of Howard's new RV-12 and burns about twice Howard's fuel consumption (and all of it 100LL), so there's a mix of some 'lower' and some 'higher' costs. But I probably fly ~20-30% faster and can carry ~60% more weight in passengers & gear (which in our case is part of our mission). Two weeks ago we flew out to Bozeman MT from Jacksonville FL, airports which share Delta service via Atlanta. We flew 13 hours over two days to make that run at the same cost (fuel, motel, rental car in our case) as Delta would have charged us. And since the family pooch came along for the ride, we spent far less than commercial air service for the 3 of us would have cost. Sure, the 'ownership cost' equation is more complicated than that but our ownership costs would have been the same if the plane had just sat in its Jax hangar. And insofar as 'ownership cost' is concerned, our supposedly 'antiquated' airplane has required one leaky brake line repair in 3.5 years, life limited component replacements aside. I share this info just to illustrate that, for other kinds of missions, recreational aviation can still be at
least somewhat reasonably cost effective as well as fun.
As for the 'technology' side of Howard's update, I was struck by how my Grumman's now-supposedly antiquated technology offers almost identical features to what Howard describes. Except I don't have to push a button to push a flight plan or route change from a primary screen display to its back-up; it happens automatically. I'm of course referring to the FF-equipped devices we fly with. And as has been true each time we've made this east-to-west flight, we had to deal with crossing a frontal weather system (which usually move in the opposite direction, W-to-E). We faced some ugly convective weather and larger areas of rain showers flying over parts of 10 states, yet we did it safely and - with a few elevator moments aside - comfortably while monitoring all that weather junk easily. We had to file IFR for two of the legs and make one instrument approach and always had a birds-eye view of where we were relative to the route & the vectored and instrument approaches. I find all of this close to 'magic' and appreciate it immensely when doing regional and longer flights. And equally pleasing is the fact that I'm lucky to be doing this flying stuff with my wife, who feels much more comfortable now that she doesn't have to interpret needles alone to have a sense for what's happening and where we are.
Despite the issues we face when flying and owning, I continue to feel the glass is at least half full.
Jack,
Good post and as usual you raise some interesting points.
First off, this is a sport/recreational flying forum and I know there are many interested lurkers who mull over buying v renting, even getting flying at all, or maybe getting back into after a lay-off. Either way cost is a real concern and so I try and report my actual experiences in the real world.
In a couple of posts above Jim is talking about flying the Skycatcher at Lake Norman. I used to rent that plane from the previous operation. Then, it was $140 wet plus tax, close to $150 per hour, quite steep for a Skycatcher. I also used to rent a Remos at Hickory, who also have a nice CC Sport Cub as a tailwheel LSA option, both were $100 hour plus tax. Pretty good.
On the one hand you hand in the keys after flying and walk away, on the other both schools are about an hour away and you're subject to school scheduling and more frequent maintenance intervals. As Jim and I noted, the school in Lake Norman wasn't/isn't very customer orientated. For me they didn't have the plane ready or fueled, and in Jim's case yesterday, the plane was damaged and out for maintenance. They just didn't bother to tell him.
I also flew CTLS at Mint Air in Greenville SC but they're now out of business with no replacement. I forget how much it was but it was above $160 hr. That resource was gone.
My flying requirements are for about 15 hours of flying per month. At $150 hour in the Skycatcher that's a cash outflow every month of $2250. Nothing to show for it other than the pleasure and the log-book time but no other worries other the scheduling. Even the lower priced Hickory school is a bit over $1600 month, still higher than my monthly RV-12 costs.
I bought a brand new Vans RV-12 SLSA. I bought LSA to fly light sport so Jack's type of flying isn't an option nor is it, as jack said, my mission.
Monthly it costs this to own my RV-12:-
$713 payment
$165 electric door t-hangar
$120 insurance
$100 SC property tax
$204 15hrs x 4.5 gph autogas @ 2.99 gal
Total $1302 per month in cash outflow.
The plane was $128k. Though I could have paid for it from my portfolio I chose not to. There's the interest cost of the loan but today the balance is equal what it's worth in the market with 126 hours at about a year ol, actually it's worth a little more. I put down $25k, and that isn't reflected in the monthly costs which spread over the hours and time will go down. Currently I owe less than the market value.
If I trade that cost against the lower flexibility of renting (owning I fly when I want, where I want and overnight as long as I want)then it's worth something. To me anyway. I'm sure there are folks who can spreadsheet this and point out errors…but as I said I'm trying to be real world…for me.
Okay so not every month do I fly 15 hours so the rental costs would be lower and as for owning the other costs are fixed except for the gas. If I flew 5 hours less renting still would cost more in cash outflow.
However, $2250 - $1302 is a difference of $948 going out every month.
I have been thinking of adding up all the costs for the first year of ownership and may still try after July, when I'll have done the annual. I don;t think I have all the receipts anymore and besides I'm pretty much doing it here.
Talking of annual my Rotax trained mechanic charges $350 plus parts. So far we've pretty much done 2/3 of annual items looking at various things over the year, meaning we have a pretty good rolling idea as we go along as to the condition of the plane. The maintenance so far has be relatively minor and not really expensive. The floats issue was annoying but not really expensive. I just had the $177 cost of replacements refunded. I have a claim in for $140 for the previous set (we'll see about them!).
I just added an iPad Air, wifi module and renewed the Foreflight subscription adding $25 for Synthetic vision, $55 for a RAM mount about $600 to get a second back-up screen with almost all the basics that Dynon Skyview offers, instead of installing a second screen which would be a $5500 option with installation AND I can take the iPad home or to the hotel. Most things are new, not just because I like new, but also because I'm mostly starting with a level plying field in terms of wear/tear, flying/maintenance habits of previous owner etc. Here's an example of how much it DID cost.
So, this is MY mission…LSA flying at age 62 with no current medical.
If it was LSA eligible I would take a close look at the Re-Imagined 150s that AOPA is touting as an option the LSA flying.
Jack's mission is a bit different to mine. He flies longer distances to more remote camping locations and has the payload requirement to carry camping stuff, passenger and a dog! The Grumman is a great cost effective way to do this and its been a fantastic option. Not for me, as a sport pilot but if the rule changed I would certainly consider it, although really my mission doesn't support it.
The technology is indeed phenomenal these days with a wealth of information available and very convenient. I now have Skyview with touch screen, Mode-S transponder, sectionals and IFR charts on screen, ADS-B IN/OUT (not yet 2020 approved but it does the same thing) plus many more options, backed up with an iPad almost the same screen size, backed up by an iPhone 6.
There's a lot more data and options than the last airliners I flew.
There are so many options to fit so many missions.
I began flying seriously in 1978 in year old PA-28 Cherokees and I enjoy flying small planes now much more than I did then.
Jack and I have agreed before, there's no free-lunch, but then that's true about almost anything. However, as far as light sport flying I have tried, with my experiences post on this forum, to show that it may not be what you think. I've tried to compare options and real world choices.
I have had several guys call me about the RV-12 SLSA and 2 bought airplanes after our conversations. There is a school in MD, that just bought an RV-12 SLSA and may acquire another. they also have several other LSA models to fly and really do a fantastic job of promoting Light Sport flying…Chesapeake Light Sport at Bay bridge airport.