Odd thing that happened today

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

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FastEddieB
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby FastEddieB » Fri May 08, 2015 8:05 pm

Are you so dug into your position that you can't read and understand what FAR 1.1 defines a Light Sport Aircraft as?

It seems so clear.

Even Prof Shuch had to modify his teaching to accomodate that definition.

I really try to be dispassionate and polite. I think so far I've handled this well.

Its OK to differ when it comes to opinions. Facts, not so much. And its OK to be wrong - and admit it.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
FastEddieB@mac.com

3Dreaming
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri May 08, 2015 9:40 pm

bottleworks wrote:(I'm gone. Everything deleted! Too much Ignorant data spread here).


All the data I provided comes from the FAA, including the list of Light Sport Aircraft: exsisting type certified models.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Fri May 08, 2015 9:54 pm

Who was that guy?

N456TS Allegro from Pittsboro NC? Morningstar Aviation LLC.

Kind of strange series of exchanges. :(

3Dreaming
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby 3Dreaming » Fri May 08, 2015 10:47 pm

Nomore767 wrote:Who was that guy?

N456TS Allegro from Pittsboro NC? Morningstar Aviation LLC.

Kind of strange series of exchanges. :(


I'm not sure, but he has a website for his airplane.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby FastEddieB » Sat May 09, 2015 7:02 am

Nomore767 wrote: Kind of strange series of exchanges. :(


Agreed.

Mine tend to go more like this:

Fast Eddie: "x".

Random forum member: "No, its "y" - and here's the reference."

Fast Eddie: "I could have sworn it was "x". I stand corrected. "y" it is then. Thanks!"

All of which means I learned something, by having a misunderstanding pointed out and corrected.

Which in my world is a good thing!

Speaking of good things, my last handful of posts came from here:

Image

On Lake Loudon in Friendsville, TN.

Life is good!
Fast Eddie B.

Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA

FastEddieB@mac.com

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drseti
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby drseti » Sun May 10, 2015 7:57 am

FastEddieB wrote:Life is good!


OTOH, Eddie, life could be bad. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider, and maybe change your position?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

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FastEddieB
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby FastEddieB » Sun May 10, 2015 10:36 am

drseti wrote:
FastEddieB wrote:Life is good!


OTOH, Eddie, life could be bad. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider, and maybe change your position?


I DID NOT COME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT!!!

Oh, wait...

http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y
Fast Eddie B.

Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA

FastEddieB@mac.com

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drseti
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby drseti » Sun May 10, 2015 11:25 am

FastEddieB wrote:
I DID NOT COME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT!!!


yes you did!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Thu May 28, 2015 8:11 am

As an update….my Dynon Skyview is about fixed.

They have replaced the memory module with a new unit (they're using a new vendor). They're currently calibrating as much as they can, I'll have to re-install some settings and calibration files and then I should be good to go.

I have a friend in CA who has an identical RV-12 SLSA to mine, even down to the same color. Same options etc. His memory module just froze and went blank too so he's in the process of sending his unit back.

He bought his airplane the month before I did.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:15 pm

Update

The Dynon Skyview is back in the airplane and is running normally! Yea!

The last time it froze I was unable to do an EXPORT SETTINGS to the USB and send it to Dynon. It looked like I would have to do some serious calibration until a guy at Dynon Tech Support said that after SV 10.0 firmware updates automatically export settings in the background and I should check for the settings archive on my USB. There it was!

So I only had to do a minimal number of steps to get the unit back up to speed. Basically powering up, loading the settings file and then doing a Network Calibration which basically tells SkyView what components are installed. This went well and everything after that came back to where it had been.

I had to recalibrate the auto-trim and this was easy as I had done it before and I feel more comfortable with getting into the diagnostics and calibration areas on SkyView.

I've just had to fly down to meet with my mecahnic to catch up with some maintenance that was put on hold by all this.
I finally was able to install the 'new' replacement carb floats for the Rotax 912ULS. This issue has plagued many owners and caused much gnashing of teeth. We were finally able to install the new ones and I've sent the old ones back for refund. i went through 2 sets of four floats and have been refunded for one set and am waiting on the other, and not holding my breath.
Whilst we were at it under the hood we installed new carb springs which make the throttle a little easier to operate. This also required rebalancing the carbs and the engine is running a better. I think they were a bit out of balance probably due to the frequent fiddling replacing carb floats.
Looks like I might still have to go back and get the idle adjusted as it seems a little low.
Had a couple of service bulletins to comply with and this afternoon I enjoyed the 93F SC heat at the hangar to install the Dynon WiFi adapter in SkyView.
I just bought an iPad Air and I'm waiting for the RAM mount to arrive. I'm dropping the Seattle Avionics sectional chart subscription and renewing ForeFlight Basic and adding Synthetic Vision. For $75 and $25 total they are the same price as Seattle and in my view are hands down better quality option with much more to offer.
Once installed I set up the WiFi and with a couple of button pushes and configuring iPad to talk to SkyView I can now get SkyView's ADHRS sent to Foreflight providing attitude, speed, alt and navigation on the iPad screen in FF. After playing with FF at home I planned a new route and with a push of a button sent it to Skyview. Really neat. I did a test flight this evening and changing route to direct or inserting a waypoint on Skyview can push it to iPad and vice versa which is all pretty cool. Now I feel I have a very flexible backup option to Skyview that is much more cost effective than simply adding a second SkyView screen.

I can take iPad with me and do regular iPad things at home or hotel. Check weather, plan flight and then simply load it into SkyView with the push of a button. The subscription to FF was $100, WiFi adapter $35 and iPad $449. SkyView costs about $4k+. I point this out because my mission is to fly safely and conveniently in a cost effective way.
I recently moved to an electric door pretty new T-hangar at KFDW. It's further away from home and kind of in the middle of nowhere in Winnsboro SC, north of Columbia but the folks are great, there's an avionics shop as well as maintenance and the hangar is $165 a month.
I have closer access to 93 non-ethanol auto-gas at a nearby station for $2.99 gallon. I'm currently burning 4.5-4.8 gph which is a pretty good cost for sport flying

I know there are those out there who are mulling over sport flying and cost is always a factor so I post my experiences here as real world examples.

This past month has been a bit tedious and frustrating but #$%^ happens sometimes and I've tried to grit my teeth and get through it.

I've a total of 126 hours on the RV-12 SLSA since buying it last July.

I'm going to try and enjoy some flying now…including a stop to check the idle speed because next month….is the annual!!

My mechanic and I are planning the checklist of items, some SBs, and other items that are needed to be done. He's Rotax qualified and reasonably close to me and has gotten to know my airplane quite well.

Thought I'd update this thread and report on how things turned out. So far so good!!

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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby SportPilot » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:05 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:41 pm

The poor Lake Norman Skycatcher has been a little orphan for some time.

The first school were much the same. Promised that when you were on the schedule they'd have the airplane out , fueled and ready to go. The last time I went there there wasn't anyone there and the plane was at the back of the hangar. A guy painting the hangar pulled it out with me.
The battery was almost flat and I had to go search for the fueler kid.

The CFI that checked me out told me the new school owners wanted to sell it and would I be interested? I said yeah I might and after a run around the present owners said he was now keeping it so that he could call himself a Cessna dealer. Other than that I don't think they care about the poor little plane which is a shame, as is the poor customer service not telling you about the damage.
Shame as it doesn't fly that much.
Amazing how so many turn off potential customers.

Have you thought to call Brandon at Table Rock Aviation and have him check you out in their CC Sport Cub? He'll take you to all sorts of nearby grass strips and the foothills around the Blue Ridge are pretty cool. I did that as part of the check-out although I ended up flying the Remos for a while too. I know you have Cub experience so that might be something to do? Even if you just flew with him it'd be a change from flying the Skycatcher at GVL.

Don't give up... :D

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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby SportPilot » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:21 am

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Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jack Tyler
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Jack Tyler » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:59 am

I enjoyed reading Howard's update - principally - for two reasons: he highlighted the pleasure that this new cockpit technology can bring to a pilot's experience, and he illustrated one way flying can be affordable (altho' we'll have to forget the upfront cost he incurred to get him there). I wonder if we pilots & a/c owners don't moan and fuss about the changing nature of GA more than is warranted and ignore the advances & benefits we enjoy for the same reasons. Sure seems that way to me.

For those still dabbing a toe in recreational flying waters, let me broaden Howard's illustration. I fly a Part 23 a/c built in 1979 by Gulfstream in Savannah, GA. It's a simple 4-place, fixed gear/fixed prop aircraft. It cost ~40% of Howard's new RV-12 and burns about twice Howard's fuel consumption (and all of it 100LL), so there's a mix of some 'lower' and some 'higher' costs. But I probably fly ~20-30% faster and can carry ~60% more weight in passengers & gear (which in our case is part of our mission). Two weeks ago we flew out to Bozeman MT from Jacksonville FL, airports which share Delta service via Atlanta. We flew 13 hours over two days to make that run at the same cost (fuel, motel, rental car in our case) as Delta would have charged us. And since the family pooch came along for the ride, we spent far less than commercial air service for the 3 of us would have cost. Sure, the 'ownership cost' equation is more complicated than that but our ownership costs would have been the same if the plane had just sat in its Jax hangar. And insofar as 'ownership cost' is concerned, our supposedly 'antiquated' airplane has required one leaky brake line repair in 3.5 years, life limited component replacements aside. I share this info just to illustrate that, for other kinds of missions, recreational aviation can still be at least somewhat reasonably cost effective as well as fun.

As for the 'technology' side of Howard's update, I was struck by how my Grumman's now-supposedly antiquated technology offers almost identical features to what Howard describes. Except I don't have to push a button to push a flight plan or route change from a primary screen display to its back-up; it happens automatically. I'm of course referring to the FF-equipped devices we fly with. And as has been true each time we've made this east-to-west flight, we had to deal with crossing a frontal weather system (which usually move in the opposite direction, W-to-E). We faced some ugly convective weather and larger areas of rain showers flying over parts of 10 states, yet we did it safely and - with a few elevator moments aside - comfortably while monitoring all that weather junk easily. We had to file IFR for two of the legs and make one instrument approach and always had a birds-eye view of where we were relative to the route & the vectored and instrument approaches. I find all of this close to 'magic' and appreciate it immensely when doing regional and longer flights. And equally pleasing is the fact that I'm lucky to be doing this flying stuff with my wife, who feels much more comfortable now that she doesn't have to interpret needles alone to have a sense for what's happening and where we are.

Despite the issues we face when flying and owning, I continue to feel the glass is at least half full.
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:44 am

Jack Tyler wrote:I enjoyed reading Howard's update - principally - for two reasons: he highlighted the pleasure that this new cockpit technology can bring to a pilot's experience, and he illustrated one way flying can be affordable (altho' we'll have to forget the upfront cost he incurred to get him there). I wonder if we pilots & a/c owners don't moan and fuss about the changing nature of GA more than is warranted and ignore the advances & benefits we enjoy for the same reasons. Sure seems that way to me.

For those still dabbing a toe in recreational flying waters, let me broaden Howard's illustration. I fly a Part 23 a/c built in 1979 by Gulfstream in Savannah, GA. It's a simple 4-place, fixed gear/fixed prop aircraft. It cost ~40% of Howard's new RV-12 and burns about twice Howard's fuel consumption (and all of it 100LL), so there's a mix of some 'lower' and some 'higher' costs. But I probably fly ~20-30% faster and can carry ~60% more weight in passengers & gear (which in our case is part of our mission). Two weeks ago we flew out to Bozeman MT from Jacksonville FL, airports which share Delta service via Atlanta. We flew 13 hours over two days to make that run at the same cost (fuel, motel, rental car in our case) as Delta would have charged us. And since the family pooch came along for the ride, we spent far less than commercial air service for the 3 of us would have cost. Sure, the 'ownership cost' equation is more complicated than that but our ownership costs would have been the same if the plane had just sat in its Jax hangar. And insofar as 'ownership cost' is concerned, our supposedly 'antiquated' airplane has required one leaky brake line repair in 3.5 years, life limited component replacements aside. I share this info just to illustrate that, for other kinds of missions, recreational aviation can still be at
least somewhat reasonably cost effective as well as fun.

As for the 'technology' side of Howard's update, I was struck by how my Grumman's now-supposedly antiquated technology offers almost identical features to what Howard describes. Except I don't have to push a button to push a flight plan or route change from a primary screen display to its back-up; it happens automatically. I'm of course referring to the FF-equipped devices we fly with. And as has been true each time we've made this east-to-west flight, we had to deal with crossing a frontal weather system (which usually move in the opposite direction, W-to-E). We faced some ugly convective weather and larger areas of rain showers flying over parts of 10 states, yet we did it safely and - with a few elevator moments aside - comfortably while monitoring all that weather junk easily. We had to file IFR for two of the legs and make one instrument approach and always had a birds-eye view of where we were relative to the route & the vectored and instrument approaches. I find all of this close to 'magic' and appreciate it immensely when doing regional and longer flights. And equally pleasing is the fact that I'm lucky to be doing this flying stuff with my wife, who feels much more comfortable now that she doesn't have to interpret needles alone to have a sense for what's happening and where we are.

Despite the issues we face when flying and owning, I continue to feel the glass is at least half full.



Jack,

Good post and as usual you raise some interesting points.

First off, this is a sport/recreational flying forum and I know there are many interested lurkers who mull over buying v renting, even getting flying at all, or maybe getting back into after a lay-off. Either way cost is a real concern and so I try and report my actual experiences in the real world.

In a couple of posts above Jim is talking about flying the Skycatcher at Lake Norman. I used to rent that plane from the previous operation. Then, it was $140 wet plus tax, close to $150 per hour, quite steep for a Skycatcher. I also used to rent a Remos at Hickory, who also have a nice CC Sport Cub as a tailwheel LSA option, both were $100 hour plus tax. Pretty good.
On the one hand you hand in the keys after flying and walk away, on the other both schools are about an hour away and you're subject to school scheduling and more frequent maintenance intervals. As Jim and I noted, the school in Lake Norman wasn't/isn't very customer orientated. For me they didn't have the plane ready or fueled, and in Jim's case yesterday, the plane was damaged and out for maintenance. They just didn't bother to tell him.
I also flew CTLS at Mint Air in Greenville SC but they're now out of business with no replacement. I forget how much it was but it was above $160 hr. That resource was gone.

My flying requirements are for about 15 hours of flying per month. At $150 hour in the Skycatcher that's a cash outflow every month of $2250. Nothing to show for it other than the pleasure and the log-book time but no other worries other the scheduling. Even the lower priced Hickory school is a bit over $1600 month, still higher than my monthly RV-12 costs.
I bought a brand new Vans RV-12 SLSA. I bought LSA to fly light sport so Jack's type of flying isn't an option nor is it, as jack said, my mission.

Monthly it costs this to own my RV-12:-

$713 payment
$165 electric door t-hangar
$120 insurance
$100 SC property tax
$204 15hrs x 4.5 gph autogas @ 2.99 gal

Total $1302 per month in cash outflow.

The plane was $128k. Though I could have paid for it from my portfolio I chose not to. There's the interest cost of the loan but today the balance is equal what it's worth in the market with 126 hours at about a year ol, actually it's worth a little more. I put down $25k, and that isn't reflected in the monthly costs which spread over the hours and time will go down. Currently I owe less than the market value.
If I trade that cost against the lower flexibility of renting (owning I fly when I want, where I want and overnight as long as I want)then it's worth something. To me anyway. I'm sure there are folks who can spreadsheet this and point out errors…but as I said I'm trying to be real world…for me.

Okay so not every month do I fly 15 hours so the rental costs would be lower and as for owning the other costs are fixed except for the gas. If I flew 5 hours less renting still would cost more in cash outflow.
However, $2250 - $1302 is a difference of $948 going out every month.

I have been thinking of adding up all the costs for the first year of ownership and may still try after July, when I'll have done the annual. I don;t think I have all the receipts anymore and besides I'm pretty much doing it here.
Talking of annual my Rotax trained mechanic charges $350 plus parts. So far we've pretty much done 2/3 of annual items looking at various things over the year, meaning we have a pretty good rolling idea as we go along as to the condition of the plane. The maintenance so far has be relatively minor and not really expensive. The floats issue was annoying but not really expensive. I just had the $177 cost of replacements refunded. I have a claim in for $140 for the previous set (we'll see about them!).
I just added an iPad Air, wifi module and renewed the Foreflight subscription adding $25 for Synthetic vision, $55 for a RAM mount about $600 to get a second back-up screen with almost all the basics that Dynon Skyview offers, instead of installing a second screen which would be a $5500 option with installation AND I can take the iPad home or to the hotel. Most things are new, not just because I like new, but also because I'm mostly starting with a level plying field in terms of wear/tear, flying/maintenance habits of previous owner etc. Here's an example of how much it DID cost.

So, this is MY mission…LSA flying at age 62 with no current medical.

If it was LSA eligible I would take a close look at the Re-Imagined 150s that AOPA is touting as an option the LSA flying.

Jack's mission is a bit different to mine. He flies longer distances to more remote camping locations and has the payload requirement to carry camping stuff, passenger and a dog! The Grumman is a great cost effective way to do this and its been a fantastic option. Not for me, as a sport pilot but if the rule changed I would certainly consider it, although really my mission doesn't support it.

The technology is indeed phenomenal these days with a wealth of information available and very convenient. I now have Skyview with touch screen, Mode-S transponder, sectionals and IFR charts on screen, ADS-B IN/OUT (not yet 2020 approved but it does the same thing) plus many more options, backed up with an iPad almost the same screen size, backed up by an iPhone 6.
There's a lot more data and options than the last airliners I flew.
There are so many options to fit so many missions.

I began flying seriously in 1978 in year old PA-28 Cherokees and I enjoy flying small planes now much more than I did then.

Jack and I have agreed before, there's no free-lunch, but then that's true about almost anything. However, as far as light sport flying I have tried, with my experiences post on this forum, to show that it may not be what you think. I've tried to compare options and real world choices.

I have had several guys call me about the RV-12 SLSA and 2 bought airplanes after our conversations. There is a school in MD, that just bought an RV-12 SLSA and may acquire another. they also have several other LSA models to fly and really do a fantastic job of promoting Light Sport flying…Chesapeake Light Sport at Bay bridge airport.


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