Odd thing that happened today

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Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:06 pm

Flew 1.3 hours today and everything was completely normal.

Before flight I downloaded the last hour's worth of flight (diagnostics file) and have uploaded that to Dynon. It should include the screen blanking with the large red X and ADHRS FAIL, as well as the full screen blank in the flare.

When I hear back from Dynon regarding their analysis of the two files I uploaded I'll be sure to pass it on.

On a side note I borrowed my wife's iPad mini ,which has Foreflight on it, and flew with it as a potential back-up to the Skyview. The mini's size would fit well if I buy a suction mount for the right side of the RV's panel. I already have Foreflight on my iPhone.
I used a Bad Elf GPS in the iPad and it works very well but is a power hog on the battery so I plugged it into the aux electrical outlet.

Biggest issue I had with the iPad is a consequence of a bubble canopy airplane…I found the brightness disappointing, especially compared to the Skyview. I hear the iFly 740 is much better in this regard. For now I'm going to coninue looking at the iPad using Foreflight, especially as it'll be a back-up to it, and not a primary unit. Of course, you could argue that should I lose Skyview (as in this thread) then having another 'primary' would be good.
I think that Foreflight with the new Synthetic vision option on an iPad would be quite good.

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MrMorden
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby MrMorden » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:59 am

Nomore767 wrote: Biggest issue I had with the iPad is a consequence of a bubble canopy airplane…I found the brightness disappointing, especially compared to the Skyview. I hear the iFly 740 is much better in this regard. For now I'm going to coninue looking at the iPad using Foreflight, especially as it'll be a back-up to it, and not a primary unit. Of course, you could argue that should I lose Skyview (as in this thread) then having another 'primary' would be good.
I think that Foreflight with the new Synthetic vision option on an iPad would be quite good.


Agreed, the iPad 3 I have is not super bright, even in a high wing and cranked to full brightness. It's never been unreadable for me, but I could see that being a problem in an RV-12. The newer models might be brighter? You could make a plastic or aluminum shaded "hood" for it to cut the glare some.

The great thing about the tablets is the versatility. You can do so much on one, with touch-screen convenience, it's scary. And then when you land you can check your e-mail and surf the web on it. Just beautiful. If I had a way to run my autopilot off the iPad, I'd have very little use for the 496 in my panel at all. I'd bet that will be coming in a couple of years too, through WiFi or Bluetooth dongles.

BTW, I use Garmin pilot and have the synthetic vision option. Even without an AHARS, the SV is pretty neat and gives a nice view of terrain and obstacles ahead. I might spring for a GDL-39 3D to get an AHARS and weather. I'm sure the Foreflight and WingX SV implementations are equally cool.

EDIT: If you do buy an iPad for the plane, go ahead and get one that is 4G capable. Only the 4G models include an internal GPS that works VERY well, and probably uses less power than the Bad Elf. I have never lost position using the internal GPS in my CTSW in 170hrs of flying with it.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:32 am

MrMorden wrote:
Nomore767 wrote: Biggest issue I had with the iPad is a consequence of a bubble canopy airplane…I found the brightness disappointing, especially compared to the Skyview. I hear the iFly 740 is much better in this regard. For now I'm going to coninue looking at the iPad using Foreflight, especially as it'll be a back-up to it, and not a primary unit. Of course, you could argue that should I lose Skyview (as in this thread) then having another 'primary' would be good.
I think that Foreflight with the new Synthetic vision option on an iPad would be quite good.


Agreed, the iPad 3 I have is not super bright, even in a high wing and cranked to full brightness. It's never been unreadable for me, but I could see that being a problem in an RV-12. The newer models might be brighter? You could make a plastic or aluminum shaded "hood" for it to cut the glare some.

The great thing about the tablets is the versatility. You can do so much on one, with touch-screen convenience, it's scary. And then when you land you can check your e-mail and surf the web on it. Just beautiful. If I had a way to run my autopilot off the iPad, I'd have very little use for the 496 in my panel at all. I'd bet that will be coming in a couple of years too, through WiFi or Bluetooth dongles.

BTW, I use Garmin pilot and have the synthetic vision option. Even without an AHARS, the SV is pretty neat and gives a nice view of terrain and obstacles ahead. I might spring for a GDL-39 3D to get an AHARS and weather. I'm sure the Foreflight and WingX SV implementations are equally cool.

EDIT: If you do buy an iPad for the plane, go ahead and get one that is 4G capable. Only the 4G models include an internal GPS that works VERY well, and probably uses less power than the Bad Elf. I have never lost position using the internal GPS in my CTSW in 170hrs of flying with it.


Andy,

Thanks for the pointers. Since I already bought the Bad Elf and it works very well, I'm leaning towards iPad without the GPS from the LTE version. The Skyview is very bright and so far (except for the couple of odd days that started this thread) has been orally reliable. The bright ness issue will be better I think with the iPad secued to the panel by a suction mount. If Skyview fails I could move it to the side of the canopy next to me. Since it is a back-up then I think I'll probably be cross checking it.
Foreflight already provides GPS seed and altitude and the $25 option for Synthetic Vision adds those in a better display. If I had the Stratus' AHRS then it'd give me pitch and bank but VFR I don't need it. I actually landed the other day with literally nothing but a radio. So that info plus the situation awareness on the sectional chart screen would be great. As you say, having the ability to use the tablet for other things at destination or planning at home is excellent.
Talking of planning, Dynon now offer a $35 USB type plug in that enables wi-fi connection Foreflight to upload pre-planned routes for example. Not sure if I'd need this as my 'routes ' are usually direct or a dog-leg.

SportPilot
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby SportPilot » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:24 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Sun May 03, 2015 12:25 pm

Dynon evaluated the diagnostic files that I uploaded to Tech Support and their conclusion is that the memory module is 'failing'.

I was at the plane yesterday and I was unable to copy the settings file to the USB. However, I removed the unit and it'll be on it's way to Dynon via UPS leaving Monday.

They say there's a 10 biz day turnaround which is quite long. Considering that this has been going on already for the better part of two weeks, that'll be down for the better part of three weeks and this is only a 9 month old unit, I have to say I'm a mixture of surprised, frustrated and disappointed with Dynon. I love the Skyview but…

I've posted about this issue on the VAF website and Dynon's marketing manger has been eager to step in a assuage my frustrations. We had a productive chat for about an hour the other day. Their major competitor is Garmin who have had success with the G3X Touch which is also now offered on the RV-12 SLSA by Vans.

The repair/replacement should be covered under the warranty and I'm going to ask about a refund of the $130 for shipping and insurance to send the unit back to them.

Bottom line…the technology and advances in modern LSA aircraft is impressive….the tech support not so much. For me I'm talking Rotax (recent carb float issues and supply of new fixed emplacements) and now Dynon. Just saying.

Jack Tyler
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Jack Tyler » Mon May 04, 2015 5:26 am

Howard, congrats on likely finding the problem and with a fix at hand. Frustrating, yes....but as we've all discussed in the past, complex and integrated avionics can have many component- and module-level failure points. No free lunch...

A couple of comments related to your 'back-up' choices: First, it doesn't sound to me like you need much of anything. As I understand it, you fly locally or in an area probably covered by one or at most two sectionals. (Remember those? <g> I don't even know where to get them now.) So while it's fun to max out a back-up's capabilities, your needs seem pretty basic. My Grumman has a pretty bright cockpit and I just moved to an Air 2, keeping my older iPad as a Foreflight back-up, so here are a few of my conclusions that might apply to your needs:
-- like you, I concluded my 5s phone just didn't have the screen size to be acceptably functional. That's what drove me to a 2nd iPad since, for me, I need full approach plate & LA chart back-ups.
-- let's not forget that we fly down low where little planes bounce around routinely. My only significant gripe about FF is that, when pulling up an info box for airport or weather info, that small box has v-e-r-y small sub-choice boxes, even tho' the rest of the chart screen is now frozen and unusable. With the plane hopping around, larger boxes would make FF more functional but the designers refuse to change this. (Long talk with one of them at Sun 'n Fun; they don't care). So along with aging eyes, that's another reason why I favor as much screen real estate as I can have.
-- the Air 2 screen is better at dealing with glare than I expected. So far, I haven't found it necessary to get the same $25 Sporty's anti-glare screen that I put on my older iPad, which works well but dims that beautiful retina display for all uses. But I mount my iPad like Andy does, by suction mount on my side window, which means I have the option of simply popping the iPad out of its holder and sitting it on my lap if on a given heading at a critical moment the screen gets washed out by glare. I've had to do this very little over the last 3 years. Another benefit of that location is that my arm isn't stretched out when using FF, meaning a/c movements are easier to contend with.
-- I chose a Dynon D1 as my AI back-up as I don't like the idea of having 3 or 4 devices & software packages, each built by a different mfgr, needing to work in harmony to produce a critical flight instrument. And sure enough, you've probably read that some Bad Elf products failed to work with the latest iOS update. I've had a form of AI representation available to me on the iPad for well over a year now (I have a Stratus II) and it has failed to work properly on several occasions. By contrast, the D1 and its software are built & tested by a single source. But again, your needs are basic and I don't see a D1 serving your VMC needs.
-- If you haven't seen it, the latest issue of Aviation Consumer has a review on the iFly product. It's screen does deal much more effectively with direct sunlight than any iPad does; in that regard it's superior. However, as mentioned earlier, an iPad is so multi-functional that we no longer carry a laptop when on trips. And of course one can now grab the latest METAR info (assuming a cell version of the iPad) just before starting the engine and then activate the VFR flight plan from the iPad after completing the run-up and before the roll and canceling on arrival. Lots more functionality, even when narrowing considerations to flying alone.

Sure is nice to have choices, isn't it...!
Jack
Flying in/out KBZN, Bozeman MT in a Grumman Tiger
Do you fly for recreational purposes? Please visit http://www.theraf.org

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Mon May 04, 2015 8:14 am

Jack Tyler wrote:Howard, congrats on likely finding the problem and with a fix at hand. Frustrating, yes....but as we've all discussed in the past, complex and integrated avionics can have many component- and module-level failure points. No free lunch…

A couple of comments related to your 'back-up' choices: First, it doesn't sound to me like you need much of anything. As I understand it, you fly locally or in an area probably covered by one or at most two sectionals. (Remember those? <g> I don't even know where to get them now.) So while it's fun to max out a back-up's capabilities, your needs seem pretty basic. My Grumman has a pretty bright cockpit and I just moved to an Air 2, keeping my older iPad as a Foreflight back-up, so here are a few of my conclusions that might apply to your needs:
-- like you, I concluded my 5s phone just didn't have the screen size to be acceptably functional. That's what drove me to a 2nd iPad since, for me, I need full approach plate & LA chart back-ups.
-- let's not forget that we fly down low where little planes bounce around routinely. My only significant gripe about FF is that, when pulling up an info box for airport or weather info, that small box has v-e-r-y small sub-choice boxes, even tho' the rest of the chart screen is now frozen and unusable. With the plane hopping around, larger boxes would make FF more functional but the designers refuse to change this. (Long talk with one of them at Sun 'n Fun; they don't care). So along with aging eyes, that's another reason why I favor as much screen real estate as I can have.

-- the Air 2 screen is better at dealing with glare than I expected. So far, I haven't found it necessary to get the same $25 Sporty's anti-glare screen that I put on my older iPad, which works well but dims that beautiful retina display for all uses. But I mount my iPad like Andy does, by suction mount on my side window, which means I have the option of simply popping the iPad out of its holder and sitting it on my lap if on a given heading at a critical moment the screen gets washed out by glare. I've had to do this very little over the last 3 years. Another benefit of that location is that my arm isn't stretched out when using FF, meaning a/c movements are easier to contend with.
-- I chose a Dynon D1 as my AI back-up as I don't like the idea of having 3 or 4 devices & software packages, each built by a different mfgr, needing to work in harmony to produce a critical flight instrument. And sure enough, you've probably read that some Bad Elf products failed to work with the latest iOS update. I've had a form of AI representation available to me on the iPad for well over a year now (I have a Stratus II) and it has failed to work properly on several occasions. By contrast, the D1 and its software are built & tested by a single source. But again, your needs are basic and I don't see a D1 serving your VMC needs.
-- If you haven't seen it, the latest issue of Aviation Consumer has a review on the iFly product. It's screen does deal much more effectively with direct sunlight than any iPad does; in that regard it's superior. However, as mentioned earlier, an iPad is so multi-functional that we no longer carry a laptop when on trips. And of course one can now grab the latest METAR info (assuming a cell version of the iPad) just before starting the engine and then activate the VFR flight plan from the iPad after completing the run-up and before the roll and canceling on arrival. Lots more functionality, even when narrowing considerations to flying alone.

Sure is nice to have choices, isn't it...!


Jack,

Not looking for a 'free' lunch….Dynon are busy putting out new products but not putting as much $$ into the support side is all I'm saying, in my view. My recent experience is that their position is 'we're busy', just send it in, and needing to get off the phone without seeming to really be listening. That's MY experience. It's concerning that my plane is grounded and it could be for several weeks. I get that. 'Some time' of course, but...
I also just learned that they have a new vendor for the memory modules since the older ones, which I have, have 'issues'. Well, hey…
For those that visit this site contemplating LSA flying, they need to know ALL the aspects regarding ownership, not just the brochure driven hype you get at air-shows, expos and aviation magazine reviews. There's also no free lunch on that side either.
The recent debacle with the Rotax carb floats is a case in point. There are folks literally sitting waiting to get the new small 'fixed' carb floats. The float problem has been going on for months.
Can I mention Rich's big issue with his fuel tank and the related use of E10 auto gas?

Yes for MY mission local flying ( for me up to 150 miles) still requires some kind of backup. Skyview is fantastic, but when it goes…so does everything. Ask me how I know…

I've been using FF for a while and it's great for planning and on my iPhone, it's 'on the go'. Many tablet type units are the PRIMARY for many. Whilst I realise if any primary fails then the the back-up becomes the 'new' primary, for me I need some airspeed, altitude and situational awareness. FF on an iPad, as it does on iPhone( would do that for me. Many are looking at the iPad with FF as the original 'primary' not the backup and I feel that you can look at this from both sides.

Whilst I'm not getting Stratus 2 the new $35 adapter from Dynon does send (back and forth) attitude, etc plus flight plans to and from FF. This plus the $25 Synthetic option on FF provides quite a lot of info. As you say the iPhone is also a portable laptop already. Pretty cost effective (LSA mission?). Actually, for ME, I'm actually more on the lines of…hey, I can use the iPad Air I just bought to replace my MacAir laptop, in my LSA AND it makes a good back-up! With the $35 Dynon module, $75 FF subscription and the $25 Synthetic subscription, and a suction mount,I can have a working and very useful back up! I can also have it on my iPhone.
A second Skyview screen is $4k+ installation, so for me, this is an excellent cost effective choice for LSA flying that is more affordable and yet capable.

The suction mount, for me, means the unit can be on the right side of Skyview and moved closer to the left side bubble canopy if necessary. The Bad Elf fits bit the iPad and the iPhone and works very well, at $99.


For these older eyes the Air might be better for the size. The brightness will never be as good as Skyview but not too bad as a back-up.

SportPilot
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby SportPilot » Mon May 04, 2015 9:31 am

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Last edited by SportPilot on Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:04 am

SportPilot wrote:Howard, it seems like a "no brainer" to me. If you already have the IPad Air, just get a good RAM mount and the app of your choice. I assume that would be Fore Flight. That should be all you need unless you decide you want the add-on device you keep mentioning. Question, if you lose aircraft electrical power or your Dynon fails, does that device become useless? If so, I would not get it.

I suspect you will likely decide you want the beauty of on-board Nexrad and traffic and will soon be buying a Stratus II, but that's not a decision you need to make now. It will become an obvious choice soon enough.

With the IPad Air and a good RAM mount, it will be debatable as to which device is primary and which is secondary. Nothing wrong with that.


Jim,

Don't have an Air or a mini-3 just yet. have tried my wife's first generation mini, but not on a mount.
I already have Bad Elf and a knee mount, and a subscription to FF.

With basic FF I get the digital GPS derived speed, altitude and geo-referenced position on a sectional. The new $35 device adds attitude (which I don't 'really need' but it does provide a better display of speed, alt etc. There is the option to load flight plans but as we've mentioned before that's not huge for me.
What none of them do is provide back-up to the EMS on Skyview. No temps, quantities, rpm or fuel quantity, although I can read this from the tank's gauge.
So…'maybe' the $35 adaptor isn't major but I just kerned about it and so I'll look at it.

Yes Stratus2 does provide AHRS on FF but it's $900 and I don't really need attitude in VFR I just need numbers to quantify the 'seat of the pants' if Skyview fails.

I figure Skyview will work 98% of the time. So the backup helps me fly to an airport or even home. I need to get a good display of that but not go the full Stratus2 route. besides I have spoken to a few guys who have Startus and they've had their share of gripes with it.

SportPilot
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby SportPilot » Mon May 04, 2015 12:46 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Mon May 04, 2015 4:49 pm

SportPilot wrote:Any and all GPS apps for a phone or tablet are going to give you ground speed, altitude, and geo-referenced sectionals and some other map options. This information is very accurate and the add-on device is not going to improve on that to any discernable degree. You don't need anything else. Why do you need the Bad Elf? An IPad has built in GPS. My Mooney friend doesn't need a stand alone GPS in his Mooney. The only reason I think you'll eventually want a Stratus II or SkyGuard is for Nexrad weather and traffic. They are well worth the price until you get your permanent ADS-B solution.

My recommendation is to order your tablet and RAM mount and be done for now. I have Verizon cell service and can add a 4G tablet to my data plan for $10 per month. So far, I haven't done that. I use my Phone's hotspot feature if I need to connect my tablet to the internet when WIFI is not available.

http://www.rammount.com/part/RAM-B-189-TAB3U


I don't 'need' a Bad Elf…I already have it and it works great. Don't need a 4G iPad.

My Skyview setup currently has mode-S transponder, and ADS-B IN and OUT. The OUT is not 2020 approved but it works just as well. Dynon are supposedly working on a module that will be 2020 compliant.. I have excellent traffic (which even provides N# and their transponder code on certain equipped airplanes) and HD mapping as well as weather. Since I'm VFR I rarely see any weather on the screen anyway. The sectionals option from Seattle avionics is really not as useful as I thought. For the price of their subscription I can have FF plus the Synthetic….which simply provides the landscape display with alt, sped etc. Not saying I 'need' or will get the $35 adapter but that would also add the attitude to the FF synthetic…essentially what Stratus does for $900. I drop Seattle Avionics save $99 year. I already have a FF subscription.
Like you I have Verizon and my iPhone is also a hot-spot.

I'm deciding between the Air and Mini and when I decide I'll get the RAM suction mount.

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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby SportPilot » Mon May 04, 2015 5:30 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bottleworks
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby bottleworks » Mon May 04, 2015 9:50 pm

(I'm gone. Everything deleted! Too much Ignorant data spread here).
Last edited by bottleworks on Fri May 08, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby Nomore767 » Mon May 04, 2015 10:09 pm

bottleworks wrote:
Nomore767 wrote:My Skyview setup currently has mode-S transponder, and ADS-B IN and OUT. The OUT is not 2020 approved but it works just as well. Dynon are supposedly working on a module that will be 2020 compliant..


The work is already complete and certified for 2020. You need to update it to the newest firmware and have a compliant GPS antenna. You have to choose to update the xponder after completing the S/V update to vers 12.2.


From Dynon:-

SkyView Transponder Software Update to support ADS-B 2020 Compliance

SkyView 12.2 includes a software update for SkyView’s SV-XPNDR-261 transponders. This update adds support for the ADS-B+ data format required to use the Garmin GTN and GNS (WAAS versions) IFR navigators as a GPS position source for FAA 2020 ADS-B mandate compliance credit. Pilots that have these navigators installed in their aircraft and connected to SkyView’s SV-XPNDR-261 are encouraged to update to SkyView 12.2 and enable ADS-B+ format support on both SkyView and their navigator. SkyView 12.2 is expected to be released in late April.


The software I have is SV 12.0 and I'll have 12.2 when the unit comes back from Dynon. I have the 261 transponder and ADS-B but I believe that the Skyview isn't yet 2020 compliant as far as approved GPS source in my airplane, although it is is IN/OUT.

I think the above from Dynon means that if you DO have the Garmin GTN and GNS then it's closer to be compliant, and may make it so.

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Re: Odd thing that happened today

Postby bottleworks » Mon May 04, 2015 10:30 pm

(I'm gone. Everything deleted! Too much Ignorant data spread here).
Last edited by bottleworks on Fri May 08, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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