Cheapest instruments package

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MrMorden
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby MrMorden » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:07 pm

bottleworks wrote:If the question is:
Which is the shortest and cheapest list of instruments you´ll fly with


The question is simply wrong. You shouldn't be choosing anything remotely important purely on choosing the lowest cost option.
If cost is the only consideration, you'll always end up with the worst value-to-cost ratio.

The value of a skyview is insane. They should be charging more considering the vast feature list and constant free updates. If you don't consider a skyview useful - pilot error. You're using it wrong.

I can understand not needing two, or more screens (yes, I've seen some installs with 3 units). That ventures back to the balance of cost vs the additional benefits and needs. Additional screen real estate may not be worth an additional unit. Maybe someone who tends to fly longer distances might consider dual screens more helpful vs a local only flyer.

Point being, money shouldn't be the most important factor.


Money is always a deciding factor. If not we'd each be flying a Citation X with twin jet engines and traveling at Mach 0.90 and never have to touch a thing from takeoff to touchdown.

Besides, the mission dictates the required instrument package. There is no reason to believe that for short distance pleasure flying that a full two screen Skyview system is any safer than a basic or even minimal instrument package. I'd tend to think in those conditions a pilot who is spending all his time looking out the window is safer than one twiddling knobs and buttons the whole time.

I have a Dynon D-100, analog engine instruments, a 496 and an iPad with Garmin Pilot. Are two Skyviews going to make me more capable or safer? Not by much if at all. I have made 400nm flights with no problems, hand flying the whole way.

The heavy glass has its place, even in LSA, but it's not a requirement for every flight. Sometimes all that junk just gets in the way.
Last edited by MrMorden on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

bottleworks
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby bottleworks » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:53 pm

(I'm gone. Everything deleted! Can't stand the ignorant data spread here).
Last edited by bottleworks on Fri May 08, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SportPilot
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby SportPilot » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:56 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:23 am

aeropup wrote:Hi All

I´d like to know your opinion in the following question:

Which is the shortest and cheapest list of instruments you´ll fly with?

Digital vs Analog war? All comments are welcome!


Got to thinking about your question again. In my RV-12 I basically have a Dynon Skyview Touch 10" which has everything I could possibly need in one unit. It is configurable and you can select the Six Pack mode or the digital display. It can display ADSB options, traffic and flight instruments as well as engine instruments. It calculates density altitude and groundspeed/wind component, and will display weather radar. Many features in one unit. You can select synthetic vision and it will alert you regarding terrain. Radio, autopilot and transponder are all built in and configurable. You can opt for a 7" display if it's a better fit. I have VFR sectionals included.

Other manufacturers have similarly great products, like the Garmin G3X Touch.

For my mission, light sport, day VFR it's more than I really need. A hangar neighbor with a 172 was looking at it and lamenting that his vacuum system just went out and it's been in the shop for two weeks already.

I think modern glass units are remarkable, have excellent support and are compact. They don't come cheap but they do offer amazing reliability. That said my back-up is iPad and iPhone which also allow me to take them with me to the hotel or home for planning purposes for more flexibility. They're now adding wi-fi so that i can plan a flight at home and upload it at the airplane. Amazing but for me I can still input my flight-plan in a couple of minutes using fingers.

Point being…it's modern, it's reliable, it offers amazing options and capability…and allows for me to get on with my mission and fly more. Perhaps more to the point I think they're perfect for the newer, small, efficient, fun, sport and recreational planes.

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FastEddieB
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby FastEddieB » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:44 am

Nomore767 wrote:[They're now adding wi-fi so that i can plan a flight at home and upload it at the airplane. Amazing but for me I can still input my flight-plan in a couple of minutes using fingers.


Everyone will develop different habits.

For VFR flights, even long ones, I usually just hit "DIRECT" to the destination. If I have to avoid airspace, maybe I'll insert a single waypoint, usually an airport, to create the "dogleg". Once enroute, sometimes I'll insert a waypoint "on the fly", to avoid weather, let's say, or to keep my route over populated areas or highways.

Maybe in complicated airspace saved routes with multiple waypoints might be handy.

Beyond that, I just don't like to over-complicate basic VFR flying.
Fast Eddie B.
Sky Arrow 600 E-LSA • N467SA
FastEddieB@mac.com

Nomore767
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:05 am

Eddie, I agree.

What's good now with most of the glass displays,( beyond the cool and wow factor) is that situational awareness is greatly enhanced. For position, terrain and traffic everything can be displayed. This can greatly enhance safety as well as efficiency.

Sometimes the technology is too much…a display in a Legend Cub provides the above situational awareness but an autopilot…in a Cub?

I too basically use the direct to with doglegs for airspace, terrain or obstacle. It all goes with the VFR mission of light sport to fly and enjoy it. We can also do it with better safety, convenience and efficiency.

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dstclair
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby dstclair » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:33 am

I originally answered with what I felt was the cheapest method (steam gauges + convenient place to mount a tablet). If I morph the question into my opinion of the simplest then I go with a single glass panel (Dynon or Garmin). This gives one a single screen that can be configured to a 6 pack or the modern interface of choice while giving GPS for navigation. One could also add radio, transponder and ADS-B without panel modification since all these are available remote mounted (headless). Engine monitoring is built in as well. This may be more than what one needs but the cost would be only slightly more than an analog 6-pack + engine gauges. The weight would probably be less.
dave

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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby SportPilot » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:09 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomore767
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby Nomore767 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:17 pm

SportPilot wrote:If I was going to order a new RV12, I would order a single Skyview, comm radio, transponder, and ADS-B in/out. That plus my Nexus 7 with Naviator or IFly GPS would be more than enough.


New video on Vans site if a half demo ride in the latest RV-12 SLSA which was done at the last Expo in Sebring, this past january.

http://flyrv12.com/rv-12-pilot-report-video/

The plane features the Garmin G3X Touch in a single screen layout just as Sport Pilot mentions. Vans offer the Skyview Touch as well as the Garmin. The Garmin has a feature where you can view the output of your Virb cameras which they feature in this video.

This particular plane has a one off paint job in a sea gray with lime green trim and is available for sale.

aeropup
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby aeropup » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:53 am

Hi All
Thanks for your numerous replies!
FastEddieB I would be happy with your set up to... :)
It has been very usefull for me to apreciate what you guys desire to make a simulation.
I have made a simulation analog Vs digital, it might be not fair since I have searched for several analog devices to find something cheap, but when analyzing digital I have gone directly with Skyview

So, here it is:
Result ANALOG $3215.8 -VS- DIGITAL $6165
Details below:

ANALOG TOTAL OF $3215.80

1. Airspeed Indicator (Pitot Static) - FALCON AIRSPEED INDICATOR 0-300 KPH - $167,75
2. Attitude Indicator (Gyro) - SKYSPORTS VACUUM ATTITUDE GYRO - $484,00
3. Altimeter (Pitot Static) - FALCON 3-1/8 GAUGE NON-SENSITIVE ALTIMETERS - $165,00
4. Vertical Speed Indicator (Pitot Static) - FALCON VERTICAL SPEED INDICATOR - $177,75
5. Heading Indicator (Gyro) - FALCON VERTICAL CARD COMPASSES - $260,00
6. Turn Coordinator (Gyro) - SKYSPORTS ELECTRIC TURN COORDINATOR - $378,00

Chronometer - ENM QUARTZ HOUR METERS - $47,80
Tachometer - UNIVERSAL DIGITAL TACHOMETER / HOURMETER - $48,50
Exhaust gas temp / Cylinder heat temp - FALCON 3-1/8 INCH EGT/CHT CE-003Q - $97,50
Voltmeter - FALCON GAUGE 2 INCH ROUND VOLTMETER 6-16V - $43,75
Oil temp - COOLANT TEMP GAUGE 140 TO 320ºF LIGHTED - $32,75

COM radio - ICOM A210 25 COMM TRANSCEIVER PANEL MOUN - $1.313,00
Tablet mount - RAM UNIVERSAL CLAMPING CRADLE FOR IPAD 2/3 - $25,00


DIGITAL SKYVIEW TOTAL OF $6165,00

SV-D700 - SV-D700 7" SkyView Display Bundle - $2.700,00
SV-ADAHRS-200 - ADAHRS - Primary Module - $1.200,00
SV-BAT-320 - SV-BAT-320 Backup Battery - $180,00
SV-EMS-220 - 1st SV-EMS-220 Engine Monitoring Module - $600,00
EMSKIT-RTXiS - EMSKIT-RTX - Rotax 912 iS - $190,00
SV-COM-C25/V - SkyView VHF COM Radio - $1.295,00

Nomore767
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby Nomore767 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:54 am

Aeropup,

If you're considering the cost of installing analogue instruments and gyros shouldn't you factor in the cost of installing the vacuum system and pump?

I would figure that to be in the $1500 range plus installation cost.

Wm.Ince
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby Wm.Ince » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:37 am

Aeropup,

If you go digital, and have the panel space, spend a little more money and go D-1000 (touch), instead of D-700. Functionally, they are identical, except for the touch feature.
Trust me, you won't be sorry.:)
Bill Ince
CTSW
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator

SportPilot
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby SportPilot » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:29 am

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Last edited by SportPilot on Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aeropup
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby aeropup » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:54 am

Nomore767 wrote:Aeropup,

If you're considering the cost of installing analogue instruments and gyros shouldn't you factor in the cost of installing the vacuum system and pump?

I would figure that to be in the $1500 range plus installation cost.


You are right, I guess diference is not so significant at the end and as mentioned the weight would be greater in the analog. I didn´t go to that detail. I would if the price difference were substancial but it doesn´t look like

SportPilot wrote:Also, do you have the difference in total weight of the two systems?


Thanks for yor comments!

aeropup
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Re: Cheapest instruments package

Postby aeropup » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:13 pm

And now, looking into the screen devices I have found the TL INTEGRA
You´ll find a comparison between INTEGRA, SKYVIEW, DINON180 & ENIGMA below;
http://www.transair.co.uk/charts/tl_integra_chart.html
It looks like the best option below 3K USD.
Has anyone tried it?

For me it is critical to have worldwide maps and as much languages as possible since I am looking for worlwide sales of the Aeropup.

So, with this option and D-Motors LF26 in big numbers the Aeropup will have a cost of 17K (for the kit)+14K (for the engine)+3K (for the screen), Anyone could get almost anything needed to start having fun flying safely with a New Aeropup for less than 35K!


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