LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Talk about airplanes! At last count, there are 39 (and growing) FAA certificated S-LSA (special light sport aircraft). These are factory-built ready to fly airplanes. If you can't afford a factory-built LSA, consider buying an E-LSA kit (experimental LSA - up to 99% complete).

Moderator: drseti

Flocker
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Atlanta GA; Home Airport: PDK

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby Flocker » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:02 am

jake wrote:I think best way to see Tecnam US sales is to look at GAMA reports.


Thanks Mark. FYI - 2014's data is scheduled to publish on February 11th.

rgstubbsjr
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 5:54 pm
Location: DXR - Danbury CT

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby rgstubbsjr » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:46 am

jake wrote:rgstubbsjr,

not quite sure what you mean when you say " 1/2 P92 "?
Do you mean the echo classic light?

Mark


Yes. is the price you quoted for the Lite or the full blown P92?
I was flying about 100+ hrs a year in the P92 before the owner took it elsewhere. It was perfect for my mission. Most of my flights were no longer than 4 hours, and I need a small space to carry my "pastor stuff", about 25 lbs worth. The P92 was the right aircraft for the job. I loved it.

Glenn

tomgillotti
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 am

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby tomgillotti » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:50 pm

New guy here (my intro post here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4253)

So, I saw this topic as I was doing some reading here and thought I'd try to revive it. I'll admit that my knowledge is extremely limited in this area. Recently I've taken an interest in two S-LSA's: The Bushcat by AeroSport and the A220/A240 by Aerotrek. The Bushcat was the one I found first and it's sub $50k starting price is what got my attention. The Aerotrek with it's folding wings, while more expensive, has a serious advantage with potential hangar savings due to its ability to be trailer-ed. Am I missing anything here or are these what the OP was referring to when he discussed lower cost options? They seem as though they include quite a bit for their prices and their long-term cost also seems reasonable. For someone like me who cannot afford the big costs of maintaining a used 172 or the like, a brand new S-LSA with low maintenance and upkeep/operating costs seems to be right up my alley. Of course, we'd all like a plane that has everything but the reality is that most of us cannot afford the upkeep, let alone the initial cost of a new GA plane or even a used plane that needs a lot of work.

As someone who has always wanted to own his own plane but has always been afraid of the long-term costs of ownership, I see a possibility here. Now, I'm not sure that I'm in the target market of these companies (an Aerotrek video I saw on their website referred to their "typical" customer as someone 50+)... I'm only 31, so am I a part of an untapped market for these types of planes or am I just an anomaly? I hope that I'm not the latter as I'd love to see this market grow as that growth usually means a better community of support as well as lower costs for the consumer.

Looking forward to some responses!

User avatar
dstclair
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am
Location: Allen, TX

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby dstclair » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:21 pm

Hi Tom,

What airport do you fly out of (for leisure)? I'm just up the road in North Texas.

As to purchasing an LSA, the used market is growing daily with many available in the $70K range which sounds a little rich for your budget. You could try the AMD Zodiacs which can be had below $50K. Here's an example off controller.com for $45K: http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 358066.htm

One of the keys to the CH601 is to ensure it has the wing spar upgrade.
dave

tomgillotti
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 am

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby tomgillotti » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:51 pm

Dave,

That's a pretty nice looking plane!

So, one of the things I love about the two options I posted were their ability to have Tundra tires. Who knows if I'll really ever get to use them, but the thought is intriguing. And as far as the $70k price tag, it seems a lot more feasible with a new Aerotrek that doesn't require a $400-$500/mo hangar fee.

I earned my PPL in Milton, Florida (north of Pensacola) in 2011. That was the last leisure flying that I've done. I'm in Arkansas right now and will be making the move to Texas next week. We'll be living in Abilene (~2.5 hour drive west of Dallas). ABI will be where I'd have to fly out of. What part of Texas are you in? I've flown into a few different places around Texas.

edit: article discussing Bushcat: http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/aircraf ... dtGh_ZVhtF

User avatar
dstclair
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:23 am
Location: Allen, TX

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby dstclair » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:55 am

You'll have to learn the regions of Texas when you move here -- Abilene is West Texas to us locals :D

My daughter was stationed in Abilene a few years back and I flew into ABI many times. There is also a nice little non-towered airport, Elmdale, just north of ABI. My guess is that pulling a trailer onto ABI would be problematic while Elmdale would be much more straight-forward.

Just another thought -- hangar space or tie down is likely to be much lower in Abilene than larger metro areas. Shared hangar space in Dallas can be had for around $250 and tie-downs below $100. It would not surprise me if Abilene was less than half.

I fly out of T31.
dave

tomgillotti
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 am

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby tomgillotti » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:50 am

I knew somebody would call me on the Central Texas comment! Never understood why Abilene was considered West Texas, but I'll adapt I guess.

Didn't know about Elmdale, I'll have to check it out.

That is a very good point about hangar fees at ABI. I haven't contacted them about their costs and I'd bet you're right that they're lower... but you never know.

What do you fly out of T31?

edit: emailed ABI Aero FBO... $225/mo hangar fees!

CTLSi
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby CTLSi » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:35 am

The medical appears to be stalled since ALPA (Airline Pilots) have come out against the idea.

But when it comes to the LSA niche? There are no new Part 23 aircraft for under $200k. Yet all but the ICON are under that price point. And only the Part 23 $700k Cirrus has a parachute. The Remos, Pipistrel, and Flight Design all have one.

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:58 am

Hangar fees are a sad fact of flying. It's a big expense, but if you trailer the airplane you risk getting it damaged or destroyed by other drivers every single time you want to fly it. Not to mention the wear and tear of being moved on & off a trailer, having the wings folded, and being exposed to pebbles and road grime on the trip.

I think trailering is false economy in a lot of cases.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

tomgillotti
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 am

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby tomgillotti » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:11 pm

Andy,

Great points about trailering. I guess I just always pictured a fully enclosed trailer in my mind so the extra exposure wasn't a concern. I'll also be living in a rather small town, so not much travel. I would think for most who can trailer buying something tangible would beat disappearing hangar fees. Every situation is different, though.

User avatar
MrMorden
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:28 am
Location: Athens, GA

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby MrMorden » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:27 pm

tomgillotti wrote:Andy,

Great points about trailering. I guess I just always pictured a fully enclosed trailer in my mind so the extra exposure wasn't a concern. I'll also be living in a rather small town, so not much travel. I would think for most who can trailer buying something tangible would beat disappearing hangar fees. Every situation is different, though.


There are certainly situations where a trailer could be completely appropriate and cost effective!
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

awilson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:13 am

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby awilson » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:50 pm

Trailerable aircraft; The Kitfox has been around over 25 years and would be the winner there. But I hear trailering is not all it seems. Most people who can trailer eventually just get a hangar. Plus you have to make sure that it is truly a one person wing fold and can be done most every flight. That will weed out most leaving you with just a few. Kitfox, Highlander, Horizon II. I am sure there are some more. The RV-12 wings come off but it requires 2 people. Also Sonex aircraft.

User avatar
drseti
Posts: 5215
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Lock Haven PA
Contact:

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby drseti » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:05 pm

The KitFox is a viable choice. So is the AeroTrek, which is a commercial version of the Avid Flyer, on which the KitFox was based. But, in either case, you don't want to be folding the wings when they're full of fuel. Draining and refueling for every trip to the airport is going to get old.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

3Dreaming
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: noble, IL USA

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby 3Dreaming » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:21 pm

CTLSi wrote:The medical appears to be stalled since ALPA (Airline Pilots) have come out against the idea.

But when it comes to the LSA niche? There are no new Part 23 aircraft for under $200k. Yet all but the ICON are under that price point. And only the Part 23 $700k Cirrus has a parachute. The Remos, Pipistrel, and Flight Design all have one.


The American Champion Champ 7EC is a part 23 airplane, and the price is $129,900. It can be flown by a sport pilot to boot.

tomgillotti
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 am

Re: LSA Manufacturers are missing the boat

Postby tomgillotti » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:30 pm

drseti wrote:The KitFox is a viable choice. So is the AeroTrek, which is a commercial version of the Avid Flyer, on which the KitFox was based. But, in either case, you don't want to be folding the wings when they're full of fuel. Draining and refueling for every trip to the airport is going to get old.



Well, this is something I never considered :-/ Good point!


Return to “Light Sport Aircraft”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests