Affordable ADS-B out

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zaitcev
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby zaitcev » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:33 pm

I saw Sandia demo their new 2020-compliant thing at a fly-in. Looks terrific, and occupies just 1 standard radio/transponder slot, but it costs $3500. I asked why so much and how they expect to sell any, they replied that their main market is the "twin and turbine" kind of crowd. The box is certified for installation in airplanes flying IFR.

Seems like way overkill and overpriced compared with other options in this thread, but nonetheless, it exists.

http://sandia.aero/product/stx-360-sentinel/

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designrs
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:16 pm

Owners with aircraft valued less than $150k (let alone some around $30k or less) are NOT going to spend $3,500+ for ADS-B. It's not going to happen. There's a huge market for affordable ADS-B that is already being filled, and further options will be available.

Sky Guard already offers affordable ADS-B Out which I like a lot.
Eventually they will offer 2020 compliant units.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby drseti » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:50 pm

I expect my 2020 compliance path to cost $1800. It takes $1200 to upgrade a Garmin GTX330 to extended squitter, and another $600 to replace the existing Dynon GPS with one that meets the TSO performance standard for WAAS. The real challenge will be a cabling one, to interface the two.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby SportPilot » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:52 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby drseti » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:02 am

I agree. It costs what it costs, and you equip if your mission requires compliance, regardless of the market value of your plane. If your aircraft cost only $10,000, would that make you more likely to stop buying avgas when the price went up?
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof. H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D., CFII, LSRM-A/GL/WS/PPC, iRMT
AvSport of Lock Haven
fly@AvSport.org
http://AvSport.org
http://facebook.com/SportFlying

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MrMorden
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby MrMorden » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:30 am

drseti wrote:I agree. It costs what it costs, and you equip if your mission requires compliance, regardless of the market value of your plane. If your aircraft cost only $10,000, would that make you more likely to stop buying avgas when the price went up?


No, but if avgas went to $10/gal you might change your mission.

If you are flying a $10k airplane, and it will cost you $10k to upgrade without adding significant resale value to the airplane, a perfectly rational solution would be to simply not fly in the airspace where ADS-B is required. Nobody who flies for recreation *has* to have ADS-B. Yet.
Andy Walker
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2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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MrMorden
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby MrMorden » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:33 am

drseti wrote:I expect my 2020 compliance path to cost $1800. It takes $1200 to upgrade a Garmin GTX330 to extended squitter, and another $600 to replace the existing Dynon GPS with one that meets the TSO performance standard for WAAS. The real challenge will be a cabling one, to interface the two.


My preferred path is about $5500. I don't currently have an upgradable transponder, nor a compliant GPS source. So my best option is looking like the Garmin GDL-84, my avionics shop ballparked the install at $5500 for hardware (IIRC about $3995) and installation.

There is clearly a wide range in what folks will need to pay to "get right" with ADS-B.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:53 am

MrMorden wrote:Nobody who flies for recreation *has* to have ADS-B. Yet.


In my opinion you DO need ADS-B IN/OUT if you fly areas like Florida. I have flown NY, DC, Philadelphia, and have NEVER seen such dense GA traffic in my life as Florida. Traffic is everywhere. Additionally there are many times when everybody is jammed up on the coast under low ceilings, or flying into the same popular airport.

Every flight ADS-B alerts be of multiple simultaneous reasonably close proximity / advance avoidance traffic. At least one flight a week ADS-B alerts me of close proximity conflicts that are NOT seen and NOT called out by ATC... or I know of the threat over a minute before ATC calls it out.

Additional benefits include pacing the aircraft in airport traffic sequencing... again, well before ATC calls it out. My last flight I had other aircraft on climb-out from the crosswind runway, and two aircraft sequenced ahead of me on downwind & final... all of which I was aware well before ATC called it out... and before my eyeballs could see it, even knowing exactly where to look.

Even if you fly in lower traffic areas you will be amazed at how much you "see and avoid" with ADS-B. Just one time might save you and others.

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designrs
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:04 am

SportPilot wrote:I don't see that the value of your airplane has anything to do with how much you would spend to be 2020 compliant.


Generally the value of aircraft is directly proportional to how much a person is willing or able to spend on aviation. $3,500 might be pocket change to a $500k Cirrus owner, or multi-million dollar jet operator. (No prejudice. If you can afford it, go for it buddy!) I'm sure that $3,500 looks a lot different to the guy with the $30k Cessna, and most of us LSA owners.

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designrs
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:17 am

The other day I was departing out of a Class-D airport. With ADS-B In/Out, I saw departing traffic 4 miles behind me and climbing. OK, quite some distance away. I heard ATC alert him of my aircraft as traffic. Being prudent I kept climbing and modified course away from his trajectory. Surprisingly he was on top of me ASAP. He must have been over 200 knots. Never saw him with my eyeballs.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby SportPilot » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:45 pm

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Last edited by SportPilot on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby MrMorden » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:08 pm

I'm sure there are a lot more airplanes out there than I ever see with my eyeballs. But it remains a fact that midair collisions are exceedingly rare, and almost never happens away from airports. I fly in, around, and under the ATL Class B, but I don't feel too threatened by other airplanes.

I'd love to have the awareness the technology brings, but I don't consider it essential to safety.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA

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designrs
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:38 pm

5 nm ring:
One close proximity (never saw him).
Several situational awareness.

** This is after avoiding two inbound aircraft before ATC called it out.

Typical day in Florida.

ads-b-01.jpg
ads-b-01.jpg (82.46 KiB) Viewed 1618 times

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MrMorden
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby MrMorden » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:34 pm

I understand, there are a lot of planes out there. But even in that picture, none of that traffic is a threat. The only plane anywhere near your altitude is behind you and heading away from your position.

As I said, very desirable to have, but not essential.
Andy Walker
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designrs
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Re: Affordable ADS-B out

Postby designrs » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:48 pm

Well, just before that screenshot The other aircraft was head-on at same altitude.

Yes the rest is situational awareness.
However, I regurally see the same number of aircraft within closer altitudes and will select my altitude for increased seperation.


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